CzW breeders in UK

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by bengan

Hello Paul,

I'm new to this forum and my questions might already have been answered..but here it is ..
If a CWdog has a litter in the UK.. are the puppies eligible for an official pedigree and or are they officially recognized as a CWdog by an FCI recognized institute or organization?

regards
Bengan

hi, in uk at present we do breed, our dogs can not have kennel club registrations as they are not officially recognised, our club keeps a register of all pups born, we produce our own pedigrees, keep all our hip and eye test results, all pups are chipped by club member, we keep photographic evedense of all matings, two members must be present at matings as witness, we have database of all dogs in uk, we need all records kept as we still fight to get the breed recognised and hope if it is all our paperwork will be accepted by the kennel club, we could take dogs to france and have them conformation done, but the pedigree would only have mother and father on it, all our dogs and pedigrees are available from wolfdog.org, so as long as you all know who our dogs are and that they are pedigree dogs we are happy to live with this, wewill never give up on our dogs, and they are here to stay no matter what defra or government may think, best regards paul

[bengan]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi, in uk at present we do breed, our dogs can not have kennel club registrations as they are not officially recognised, our club keeps a register of all pups born, we produce our own pedigrees, keep all our hip and eye test results, all pups are chipped by club member, we keep photographic evedense of all matings, two members must be present at matings as witness, we have database of all dogs in uk, we need all records kept as we still fight to get the breed recognised and hope if it is all our paperwork will be accepted by the kennel club, we could take dogs to france and have them conformation done, but the pedigree would only have mother and father on it, all our dogs and pedigrees are available from wolfdog.org, so as long as you all know who our dogs are and that they are pedigree dogs we are happy to live with this, wewill never give up on our dogs, and they are here to stay no matter what defra or government may think, best regards paul

Thanks for the reply.. so if I understand you correctly.. if someone were to buy a CWDog puppy from you that was born in the UK and wanted to show the dog here in europe, they could not because the dog is not FCI recognized as a CWDog and if they wanted to breed here in Europe.. the litter would not be eligible for a FCI recognized pedigree or registration..

You said that that you have had 3 litters in the UK and that means that they do not have a FCI recognized registration. I hope for you sake that the CWDog is recognized, in the UK, in the near future.

Personally I don't think it's very advantageous for the breed to have that many non recognized dog in the population. I could also imagine that breeders in the rest of Europe ,where the CWDog is recognized, would not be very willing to breed with a CWDog that was born in the UK and without an official pedigree. Down the road people Could raise questions on how pure the offspring are, breeding with a non recognized dog is cross breeding to some people.


Once again thank you for the clarification.
Bengan

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by bengan

Thanks for the reply.. so if I understand you correctly.. if someone were to buy a CWDog puppy from you that was born in the UK and wanted to show the dog here in europe, they could not because the dog is not FCI recognized as a CWDog and if they wanted to breed here in Europe.. the litter would not be eligible for a FCI recognized pedigree or registration..

You said that that you have had 3 litters in the UK and that means that they do not have a FCI recognized registration. I hope for you sake that the CWDog is recognized, in the UK, in the near future.

Personally I don't think it's very advantageous for the breed to have that many non recognized dog in the population. I could also imagine that breeders in the rest of Europe ,where the CWDog is recognized, would not be very willing to breed with a CWDog that was born in the UK and without an official pedigree. Down the road people Could raise questions on how pure the offspring are, breeding with a non recognized dog is cross breeding to some people.


Once again thank you for the clarification.
Bengan

hi Bengan, you are correct we do not have any kennel club issued pedigrees, only for the first litter,we keep all records and health screenings, there are breeders in Europe who will let us use there dogs at stud this is not a problem, all our dogs are registered on wolfdog.org all are chipped and can be identified, all breedings in Europe are logged and photos taken of each mating, so you can be assured that no cross breeding takes place, we have asked kennel club of uk, and as long as we keep records if they get recognised then all dogs can have pedigrees, you are allowed to have your personal opinions on any matter and i hope this helps you with yours on the dogs in u.k, i wouldnt get to concerned as we do know what we are doing, and the down the road people can think as they wish, in fact last year we produced a fantasic litter of cwdogs by going backwards in the lines, we got good type, bone, hight, coat and temperament and all dogs are out going, last show we visited in Holland we seen dogs from France that looked more like jackals and where affraid of there own shadows, going forward is not always the way to go, regards paul

[bengan]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi, in uk at present we do breed, our dogs can not have kennel club registrations as they are not officially recognised, our club keeps a register of all pups born, we produce our own pedigrees, keep all our hip and eye test results, all pups are chipped by club member, we keep photographic evedense of all matings, two members must be present at matings as witness, we have database of all dogs in uk, we need all records kept as we still fight to get the breed recognised and hope if it is all our paperwork will be accepted by the kennel club, we could take dogs to france and have them conformation done, but the pedigree would only have mother and father on it, all our dogs and pedigrees are available from wolfdog.org, so as long as you all know who our dogs are and that they are pedigree dogs we are happy to live with this, wewill never give up on our dogs, and they are here to stay no matter what defra or government may think, best regards paul

Paul,
Question.. you said that your club is keeping records, the chipping is done by a club member and the mating is witnessed by 2 members..
What is the name of your club in the UK and is it an official club with a registered club charter..? and how many members are there and how can one become a member..?

in fact last year we produced a fantasic litter of cwdogs by going backwards in the lines, we got good type, bone, hight, coat and temperament and all dogs are out going, last show we visited in Holland we seen dogs from France that looked more like jackals and where affraid of there own shadows, going forward is not always the way to go

It's a shame that they are not officially recognized as CWDogs an are not eligible to be shown in europe, if only to have your opinions/thoughts/comments verified as to the quality of the CWDogs that you are breeding.


Bengan

[bengan]

Paul I guess I have to ask the question again..
"Paul,
Question.. you said that your club is keeping records, the chipping is done by a club member and the mating is witnessed by 2 members..
What is the name of your club in the UK and is it an official club with a registered club charter..? and how many members are there and how can one become a member..?
"
How many members are there.. or is it just you and Mandy..? would explain how two member could be present during the mating..
Correct me if I am wrong.. but I could not find anything on your website.. or even through google.. regarding "your club"
If there is a club... would love to see the charter and member list...website....
the ball is in your court so to say...
Bengan

[Ori]

Hi,
I’ve spent some time working and living in UK. During this time tried to find people with CsV. I’ve contacted a lot people in love with Czech Wolfdogs. Some of them are the owners of CsV. As you know CsV are not recognized breed in UK. It means for “breeders” – they can’t sell puppies as pure breed. So any people I’ve contacted decided to cross pure Czech, as they want this blood for pups, but have no hope for “legal” litters.
To be true – this people are not ready to fight for Wolfdogs. They may love them, adore them, they want to breed them but… nothing more.
I met in UK one man Wolfdog crazy. He and his family left all and decided to go one way – Czech Wolfdog way. They live close to their CsV, spent whole time with them.
They are brave – they keep Czech Wolfdogs officially – as CsV, even they could be punished for this. They do lot’s of paperwork with UK Kennel Club, year after year trying to be closer to recognition of the breed.
They do not cross CsV, keep them pure and tested.
The people are Paul and Mandy, the only ones ready to fight for Wolfdogs in UK.

They opened their house and hearts for me and my Wolfdogs. They always asked – how we can help you here in UK. And finally they helped me a lot. XXX

UK is not FCI country. It will never be that FCI rules would be there. As you live there, you can see – everything in UK is opposite than in EU.
So the HD measure is different as well.
Thinking about breeding in UK – bringing CsV to UK and making litters is first step that should be done to recognize the breed in UK. They need bigger population, if not – have no chance for recognition.
As I understand the idea – now, as CsV are not recognized, but also in future, as they will be official Kennel Club breed – UK Wolfdogs (litters) are for UK people. So they always will be “pets” for EU breeders, but breeding by Paul – we can be sure they will be pure and healthy Czech.
I’ve met Paul’s Wolfdogs few times – they are VERY open, healthy and full of joy. Full of energy as well They look much better than SOME of CsV I’ve met, showing my dogs in West EU. They love visitors. Have very nice and strong characters. I wish all CsV would have characters like them.

You may not like Paul, or ways how he is reacting, but if you think about the breed – you can sleep well.
By

[nanouk]

I’ve met Paul’s Wolfdogs few times – they are VERY open, healthy and full of joy
They look much better than SOME of CsV I’ve met, showing my dogs in West EU. They love visitors. Have very nice and strong characters. I wish all CsV would have characters like them.

Are you sure he is breeding TWd than, by my best knowledge the official breedstandards speaks of "mistrustfull".

Furthermore, Paul, once again to you.. one wonders, are you really just all talk ?
Asking me, an owner of SWH to provide you with the DNA testing is useless. If you want information, dna of my dog i am all but willing to assist. For all other actions i advise you, once again , to take an official way, the dutch kennelclub provides such a way, which you should have known if you were only half way serious, and put your money actually were your mouth is, and don't try and hide later on by stating you "asked" me for assistance in DNA testing but i was not willing to help

And no, i do not question dna testing done under the auspicien of the UK kennel club, nor do i question dna results done under the same conditions.
HD tests done by a local vet, well, those i always take in a little sceptic, but hey, that is irrelevant, cause the dogs don't have papers to start with !

I know the UK is not a FCI country, but i can go to crufst with my irish red, import a stud and use it on my fci dogs and get FCI papers.. can you provide the same?
I could better refrase and state that i do frown apon breeding without official papers, for many countries that being FCI, specially the origin countries of both SWD and TWD.
All other can imho in no way benifit 2 breeds with already such small populations!