British Kennel Club Recognition

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

I did and I also mentioned I am an owner of a FC1 older female who i brought with me to the UK who is spayed, and how I wasnt a breeder, didnt intend on buying a puppy and also thought that re-educating and improving standards were important!! I also agreed that perhaps not all 'breeders' are or have 'bad' intentions and perhaps if we trust in one that has experience of the breed and wants to work/ learn more link this with the members of this forum and breeders of europe then maybe things can change..no point presuming he not open and honest, by the fact that he posted on here asked to work together to improve the breeding in UK is in my own opinion a great step forward.

I am against mixing breeds but not against re eductation and doing the right thing for the breed! I prefer to encourage such a breeder to with support stop mix breeding and promote pure breeds in the uk !

Giving everyone an equal chance?

still having a dig are we..shame you really need to stop the back biting and focus back to promotion and education of breeders/owners! looking forward to hopefully KC registration of the breed

hmmm......im backbiting am i? i find your posts are inflammatory and contradict themselves......

you have done 'digging' on this thread.......

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

oh dear, did paul also turn you down when he vetted you like the other breeder did.seems very much like you have a bug to bare! give him chance to reply to you and yes would be fab to get a group together!!

pmsl!!!!!!!!!! i have never approached him for a dog!! fact is he doesnt breed pure anyway! lol

are you two friends??

you think you know everything about me ,you know nothing and its laughable the conclusions you are coming to lol!

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by orkwolf

I want 2 pure breeding bitches 15 to 20 months old to breed with. I want low hip scores & DM free. CAN anyone or IS anyone prepared to help promote a new healthy pure line in the UK to a serious breeder who is determined to promote healthy dogs that are kept and bred in exceptional facilities in the UK? Many breeders lie & are stabbing each other in the back here instead of getting together to promote what is best & good for the CsV.

Hi Paul, what's the hurry? Why not get a female pup, nurture her and learn from her then breed when she has reached maturity? Then you can consider getting a second to do the same...
Also, wouldn't it be better to see who has interesting bloodlines compared to your males (who are non-FCI, I believe), rather than just going for any '2 pure breeding bitches 15 to 20 months old to breed with''. These are living beings, not machine parts .

Originally Posted by orkwolf

I WILL breed pure CsV bitches and dogs, one way or another but I want to do it properly.
Thank You

I hope that came across worse than you intended - a wee bit of a threatening tone in there... I'm not having a go at you, just pointing out that your post comes over badly - or maybe that's just me?

[pixie]

Originally Posted by orkwolf

REGARDING BREEDER "ORKWOLF"
After checking out certain members and posts etc I am astonished to be taking undeserved lies, criticism and hate. Why, I have not wronged anyone, the people commenting vocally don't even know me, they have never spoken or met me or my dogs, so how dare you.
I am not the only breeder in the UK who breeds pure CsV to 3/4 cross CsV. Why am I getting slated!
I take the care of my dogs and pups seriously, I have been working alongside my animal welfare officer over the last few months to become Orkneys only licensed & regulated breeder, this should be completed by the 28th October, not the actions of a back street breeder with no morals or regard for his animals!
Its well noted that my dogs are in excellent health and want for nothing as are my pups.
YES I do vet interested new owners with a variety of important and thought provoking questions that have to be emailed back to me so I hold as a record!
YES I give out an Adoption Contract that has strict stipulations as to the care, welfare and commitment to my pup and it also legally enables me to take back MY pup/dog if it is in anyway miss-treated, abused or neglected.
I DONT lie, I dont change records or switch pups/parents on forms, I dont change dates to sell pups, I dont breed super high content hybrids and sell to people with very young children, all information about my dogs and their breed details are readily available. ALL of my pups are vet checked TWICE and all vaccinations done, they are wormed every 2 weeks from 4 weeks on, treated with frontline, microchipped, new owners are vetted and are under contract, I am in contact with every one of my pups owners and know where every pup is. All my dogs are registered with my local council and vets, all my pups births are on record with exact dates and parentage. I only breed bitches that are over 2 years old, and breed bitches with a full 12 month rest gap from their last litters and breed only 4 litters per bitch, unlike so many other breeders!
I took back one pup recently because the new owners had lied about how long the pup was spending on its own, this was a first in 6 litters, I travelled on a 25 hour round trip {including two 7 hour ferry trips, one ferry trip was storm force 8!} to get her back safely and I re-homed her with a loving caring current Orkwolf pup owner. Are these the actions of an inconsiderate uncaring breeder just out for money? NO. So why exactly am I being talked about in this way, what, because I breed a pure to a cross? I will breed pure CsV dogs when I am able to find suitable honest breeders who health test their dogs.

TO THE ONES WHO CRITICISE
Come to my farm on the Orkney coast, stay the weekend, see my dogs, play with them, fuss them, see their two exercise areas both 2 acres big, or see our own enclosed area of beach, that we own, that they play on, see their above standard kennelling, their health records, the £1000 every three months on vets bills, the £200 I spend on meat and food every week, see that I am not making £££££ but putting everything back into the care and welfare of my pack!
The actions of a few bring into question the accuracy of any information on this site.
I take immense offence to the comments that have been made about me and can prove they are lies so REMEMBER putting incorrect, miss-leading hateful remarks and lies on public forums like this will lead to prosecution an these ones being sued!!
I am watching very carefully certain ones who have for unknown reasons taken to libel and slander, MARK MY WORDS I will sue you if you continue, YOU know who you are. I am doing nothing wrong, but certain ones actions here are illegal.
Thank you
Paul Collins. ORKWOLF

Hi Paul, dont know you and think that this was a very good post but again you are bickering, I understand that you are upset with certain people on here, as you obviously care about your dogs, and you are exactly the type of breeder we need in this country to start getting the CSV bred pure which is why I say there should be a new start from the first meeting hope you dont sue me lol Chris

[orkwolf]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

hi :-)

i do worry with regards to you wanting purebreed bitches.... as you yourself state you breed crosses because 'not everyone can handle a purebreed' that argument alone is not true...mixing with working breeds of dogs makes them no easier to handle.

also your stud/s are not fci registered or will u not be using them?

also....why not live with the breed before wanting to breed? i believe you have not owned your dogs for very long at all and seem to produce vast numbers of pups.

why do you now want to suddenly breed purebreeds?


eta...yes we got off on a very bad foot,but tbf you threw your toys out the pram about comments i didnt even write,then threw insults at me on a group on fb because i spoke out about crossbreeding....and now you have changed your mind about crossbreeding?.... what happened to 'change your mind'?

INCORRECT, dont take this the wrong way but I took dislike to your stomping on people and your very strongly opinionated views.

Secondly ive lived with the CsV for 4 years before breeding, I only bred last year and started with another breeders bitches, quite a few of them! Its been a learning curve and IN HINDSIGHT I would have done things completely differently, naive??.

YES I want to go down the pure route and be recognised! BUT I want to go down this road with pure CsV with NO DM, with excellent hips and health testing, I want my own line NOT from UK breeders here.

I hope that answers your questions.

[orkwolf]

Originally Posted by pixie

Hi Paul, dont know you and think that this was a very good post but again you are bickering, I understand that you are upset with certain people on here, as you obviously care about your dogs, and you are exactly the type of breeder we need in this country to start getting the CSV bred pure which is why I say there should be a new start from the first meeting hope you dont sue me lol Chris

Is standing up for myself bickering?

[happyfeet]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

hmmm......im backbiting am i? i find your posts are inflammatory and contradict themselves......

you have done 'digging' on this thread.......

You asked me a question? which I responded with my opinion, if you dont like it dont ask, you seem to be very jumbled yourself ? portraying your dislike of such breeders however after being rejected by one we know of , you buy from another? double standards? hmmmmm If you dont like their practices why buy from them in the first place?

Having a dig at me may make you feel better but it isnt really helping the thread is it? supporting change is much more important than your petty back biting!! Giving Paul chance to voice his opinion is only fair as we read and listen to yours! the forum is open to all and we are all equal!

[orkwolf]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Hi Paul, what's the hurry? Why not get a female pup, nurture her and learn from her then breed when she has reached maturity? Then you can consider getting a second to do the same...
Also, wouldn't it be better to see who has interesting bloodlines compared to your males (who are non-FCI, I believe), rather than just going for any '2 pure breeding bitches 15 to 20 months old to breed with''. These are living beings, not machine parts .



I hope that came across worse than you intended - a wee bit of a threatening tone in there... I'm not having a go at you, just pointing out that your post comes over badly - or maybe that's just me?

Good point, but with all the negative against cross breeding, I thought it would be a better way to start over and move on?
Sorry I wasnt being aggressive, I had heard that a certain person was going full steam ahead to make sure I never get a pure Bitch?? Mr Winder who ive never met or spoken to other than to send condolences when hie "Kizzy died"
That doesnt help the cause.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by pixie

Oh and just because someone bred mixes in the past dosent mean they should be excluded, this is a new start, so lets all get together and fight for this breed in our country, if we do it before October ends that would be better. stop arguing with each other and get it going

I'm sorry but I think you underestimate the HUGE mental difference between two breeding cultures: the FCI and... I don't know how to call it... British (?).
1. If a breeder breeding under FCI recognized KC has even one mix bred litter and sells it, he loses breeding rights for good, no matter how much he wants to get things right afterwards. This is a major crime against regulations and breeder ethics and such person is persona non grata among honest breeders.

2. If an accident happens (things happen even in best FCI kennels) and there is an unwanted mix-bred litter, a responisble breeder gives away the pups to good people and makes sure the dogs are neutered asap. Not to mention that he'd never boast about it on his/her webpage, becasue this would put his reputation at risk.

3. If a dishonest breeder consciously mix-breeds he usually tries to issue fake FCI pedigrees and when this is found out- he loses his reliablity and sells later only to puppy mills and ignorant owners who don't know what they're buying. If this is proved - look at point 1.

Once the British "pup manufacturers" (sorry for this expression, but for me a breeder is somebody who is a purity guarant of a particular breed), who keep producing mix-bred litters understand how they're percieved among the solid CSV breeders they will finally understand why they may only trade with puppy mills whose owners don't care what happens later to their "kids". No wonder caring breeders don't want to sell them good quality pups - they value their own work and efforts too much to have it wasted or risk their pups will be used for non-ethical (in their justified perception) breeding.

[pixie]

Originally Posted by orkwolf

Is standing up for myself bickering?

Of course not but were does it end, probably with no one talking to each other and the breed going backwards again, if everyone met up face to face it would all get sorted without this in-fighting, i think btw have seen some pics of your dogs they look great Chris

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by orkwolf

Good point, but with all the negative against cross breeding, I thought it would be a better way to start over and move on?
Sorry I wasnt being aggressive, I had heard that a certain person was going full steam ahead to make sure I never get a pure Bitch?? Mr Winder who ive never met or spoken to other than to send condolences when hie "Kizzy died"
That doesnt help the cause.

Are you saying that Mr. Winder is trying to put the kaibosh on your plans? What influence does he have? No one on here trusts him as far as they can throw him...

[orkwolf]

Originally Posted by pixie

I am against mixing breeds but not against re eductation and doing the right thing for the breed! I prefer to encourage such a breeder to with support stop mix breeding and promote pure breeds in the uk !

Giving everyone an equal chance?

I agree please lets stop all this bickering and look at the bigger picture,

Hi nice to meet you.
I really wanted to breed the pure initially, but couldnt find a suitable girl, I went to a breeder to get a bitch but ended up with a good few adult crosses, like I said in hindsight I would have done things differently. But its never too late. I want to change that now. But I dont regret the wonderful pups ive had and the great people I have met.
paul

[happyfeet]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

pmsl!!!!!!!!!! i have never approached him for a dog!! fact is he doesnt breed pure anyway! lol

are you two friends??

you think you know everything about me ,you know nothing and its laughable the conclusions you are coming to lol!

Never met him before, however thought he was brave posting on here!! and very honest.. shame you want to continue your attacks towards forum members ..

nice to see other newer members politely thanking him for his post.

You are quick to judge and voice an opinion, shame you can not accept opinions of others!

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Rona

I'm sorry but I think you underestimate the HUGE mental difference between two breeding cultures: the FCI and... I don't know how to call it... British (?).
1. If a breeder breeding under FCI recognized KC has even one mix bred litter and sells it, he loses breeding rights for good, no matter how much he wants to get things right afterwards. This is a major crime against regulations and breeder ethics and such person is persona non grata among honest breeders.

2. If an accident happens (things happen even in best FCI kennels) and there is an unwanted mix-bred litter, a responisble breeder gives away the pups to good people and makes sure the dogs are neutered asap. Not to mention that he'd never boast about it on his/her webpage, becasue this would put his reputation at risk.

3. If a dishonest breeder consciously mix-breeds he usually tries to issue fake FCI pedigrees and when this is found out- he loses his reliablity and sells later only to puppy mills and ignorant owners who don't know what they're buying. If this is proved - look at point 1.

Once the British "pup manufacturers" (sorry for this expression, but for me a breeder is somebody who is a purity guarant of a particular breed), who keep producing mix-bred litters understand how they're percieved among the solid CSV breeders they will finally understand why they may only trade with puppy mills whose owners don't care what happens later to their "kids". No wonder caring breeders don't want to sell them good quality pups - they value their own work and efforts too much to have it wasted or risk their pups will be used for non-ethical (in their justified perception) breeding.

Once again, Rona cuts to the heart of the issue and makes sensible valid points Points that need to be considered by ALL parties involved...

[pixie]

[quote=Rona;405213]I'm sorry but I think you underestimate the HUGE mental difference between two breeding cultures: the FCI and... I don't know how to call it... British (?).
Maybe i dont understand it but we want to start afresh and getting recognition in this country is my priority

[orkwolf]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Are you saying that Mr. Winder is trying to put the kaibosh on your plans? What influence does he have? No one on here trusts him as far as they can throw him...

oh thats interesting, I was under the impression he had a lot to do with this here and had some clout from what I had heard. I tried to log on a few weeks ago but my account was deactivated? I thought it had something to do with him as a breeder had recently told me about the "people who "hated" and gave names, bit strong I know especially as ive never met any of them? I had sent 6 emails to admin asking why but no reply so though the worst but rejoined today, glad I did as someone had to speak up, I am a genuine person and genuinely want the best for this fantastic breed. My Zavvie is a complete bruiser but I love him to bits.

[happyfeet]

[quote=pixie;405220]

Originally Posted by Rona

I'm sorry but I think you underestimate the HUGE mental difference between two breeding cultures: the FCI and... I don't know how to call it... British (?).
Maybe i dont understand it but we want to start afresh and getting recognition in this country is my priority

HERE HERE!!!

[orkwolf]

Originally Posted by pixie

Of course not but were does it end, probably with no one talking to each other and the breed going backwards again, if everyone met up face to face it would all get sorted without this in-fighting, i think btw have seen some pics of your dogs they look great Chris

Thank you Chis
I agree, I have never and will never hold a grudge, of course no one likes being miss called when they are doing their best but bickering will get no where especially when there are more important issues to be talking about, people are of course entitled to their own opinions but it is does get out of hand.

Best regards
Paul

[orkwolf]

[quote=happyfeet;405223]

Originally Posted by pixie

HERE HERE!!!

I would welcome that and would like to help in any way.

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

Never met him before, however thought he was brave posting on here!! and very honest.. shame you want to continue your attacks towards forum members ..

nice to see other newer members politely thanking him for his post.

You are quick to judge and voice an opinion, shame you can not accept opinions of others!

What attack???

I said hi,with a smiley face then asked valid questions!!