Black under jaws, from wolf or GSD ???

[Mikael]

Hello

I have belived that the black under jaws on CsV was hereditary from the GSD...

But now I am not sure anymore ???

I fund this butefull paiting on Timberwolfs, the mother has wite under jaw, but the puppys have black, especialy one.
Dose Carpatian wolfs puppies have black underjaws to ???

The link : http://www.freespiritart.com/images/...art-prints.jpg

Does any body know more on this subject ?

Best regards / Mikael

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Yes they do.
Here you can see four of the Carpatian wolfs we handraised:
http://www.twhclub.de/wbb2/thread.ph...tuser=0&page=3
But staying black jaws are GSD-heritage.

Ina

[Mikael]

Zitat von michaelundinaeichhorn

Yes they do.
Here you can see four of the Carpatian wolfs we handraised:
http://www.twhclub.de/wbb2/thread.ph...tuser=0&page=3
But staying black jaws are GSD-heritage.

Ina

Tanks fore the photos

But how can one be so sure that it is from GSD when the wolf also has it ???

Regards / M

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Because in wolfs only puppies have it. It gets lighter in the first year like it does in CSW following the standard.

[Mikael]

Zitat von michaelundinaeichhorn

Because in wolfs only puppies have it. It gets lighter in the first year like it does in CSW following the standard.

Thanks fore the answer

Regards / Mikael

[saschia]

Zitat von Mikael

But how can one be so sure that it is from GSD when the wolf also has it ???

The black muzzle is a sign of puppy in wolves - as far as I know the pups are removed from the pack hierarchy until around half year old, unlike in dogs.
Domestification actually causes preservation of some infant characteristics in adult dogs - like infantile behavior, big eyes, round head, smooth hair - some of them were even further supported by selection in pet breeds. It seems this was also true for black muzzle.

Ina, do you know what is the usual time for the muzzle to get light in carpathian wolves? It seems to me that most of wolfdogs have the light mask fully developed by 3 months of age, and i have seen some cca 2 months old pups with very distinct light masks in photographs...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

It was different in our wolfs but in general all 8 got total developed masks later than our wolfdogs. When you look at the last pictures on page 4 of the link they are about 6 month of age.
They are about 3 month on the picture where all three are howling, I woulnd´t buy a wolfdog looking like that in that age, they develop differently in the first year.

But I don´t think dark faces in dogs are due to Infantilisation.

Ina

[saschia]

Well, it might be only due to selection, but why? I mean most of the breeds which are not light in color have either no mask, or dark mask. Exceptions seem to me to be only black-and-tan colors and nordic breeds.