Wolfish or not, view of standard.

[lupis]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

We're probably the first breeder in history breeding wolfdogs with extremely wolfish characteristics

I seen many photos of Layla and I see nothing on wolf - no wolf characteristics. She is blackmasked with dark eyes and strange head. Nothing similar to wolf but many similatiries to shephard. Much worse than italian dogs in dog shows.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by lupis

I seen many photos of Layla and I see nothing on wolf - no wolf characteristics. She is blackmasked with dark eyes and strange head. Nothing similar to wolf but many similatiries to shephard. Much worse than italian dogs in dog shows.

Dear Lupis,

Michael was joking because this discussion is so very silly, especially the fur in the ear thing.
If you would have real experience you would know that the dark mask will vanish totally the next few months (in fakt it is already there at his photo here) and the dark (?) eyes will get lighter in many dogs what you already see very well on the photos of Layla, about the strange head, I don´t know what you mean but don´t worry, I don´t mind.
As you can see here is a light mask in a young individual not very typical for wolves, the animals on the pictures are pure European wolves:
http://img175.imageshack.us/i/inamitwolf.jpg/
http://img203.imageshack.us/i/alleaufdemscho.jpg/
http://img682.imageshack.us/i/frwolfdog.jpg/

The wolf on the last picture was one of the puppies that is about the same age as Layla.

And also adult wolves don´t look similar:
Norbert

his full brother and litter mate Ninjo, same parents, no mix in sight.

Sorry for the quality of the picture but I think you can see what I mean.
They are almost three years now and look at Norbert´s mask!
They are two of the puppies on the first two pictures.

Of course a young (or old) wolfdog won´t look like a wolf, it is a dog! Young wolfdogs look very different to wolves from about 8 weeks of age on. Wolves have a period with horrible big ears, no mask at all, very funny squirrel tails, very strange heads - but oh wonder! they get beautiful perfect wolves when they are about 1-2 years, it really is like the story of the black swan.
In a very different way it is the same with wolfdogs...
This is the reason why the comparison of photos in the beginning of Mikael (who I really appreciate in this forum) doesn´t make sense.
Somebody who knows this breed will know where your problems with Layla have their origin: in Bref, but someone who really knows about this breed will also know why we made this pairing and why it was interesting for several breeders worldwide, but anyway won´t judge a dog before the age of about 2-3 years, especially not a dog out of the origin of our lines, they are fully developed with around 3-4 years.

But this is rather OT and not really interesting for this topic.
I like the dog on Massimos pictures very much and I also don´t believe that it is a mix. That doesn´t mean that I agree with the breeding practices of Passo de Lupo and also think that you should look on the whole lot of offspring of a kennel. But this wasn´t the topic of this thread, wasn´t it?

But a good wolfdog is more than just good looks on photos what means that exhibitions don´t count that much, not for me.

Ina

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Dear Roberto,

for a male European Wolf, 10 month



a female CSW, 10 month


a female CSW, 15 month



they are all similar and beautiful enough. As far as it is possible to judge with three photos made in different angles, different light and different people.

Greetings
Ina

[Hanka]

Hi Lupis, you wrote this:
I seen many photos of Layla and I see nothing on wolf - no wolf characteristics. She is blackmasked with dark eyes and strange head. Nothing similar to wolf but many similatiries to shephard. Much worse than italian dogs in dog shows.

It is absolutly wrong view. What are wolf characteristics? This black mask comes from her father Blek. But we are happy, we can use him in his "end of life", because wolfdogs as breed need him. Tell me, how much males in Italy you have in "group of males" from Ayayk z Vlamy? Who is person or group of person (usually we use name- breed comission) who care about genopool in Italy?
I don´t care if it is "shepard" or no. Everything we can repair and corect by "breeding work". Yes, maybe it is work for 5 or 10 years....Why not. But we will have large genopool. We (or our breed) need not beautiful wolfdogs what you can see on italian shows (like you wrote) , but only from 1-2 bloodlines.
And about wolf characteristics: if you mean shynnes too, no thanks.
Wolfdog was created as working breed.

[lupis]

Originally Posted by Hanka

It is absolutly wrong view. What are wolf characteristics? This black mask comes from her father Blek. But we are happy, we can use him in his "end of life", because wolfdogs as breed need him. Tell me, how much males in Italy you have in "group of males" from Ayayk z Vlamy? Who is person or group of person (usually we use name- breed comission) who care about genopool in Italy?
I don´t care if it is "shepard" or no. Everything we can repair and corect by "breeding work".

Thank you that you agree with my opinion. I like honest answer and not try people believe shepard dog is like wolf because of one good photo.

Originally Posted by Hanka

Hi Lupis, you wrote this:
I don´t care if it is "shepard" or no. Everything we can repair and corect by "breeding work". Yes, maybe it is work for 5 or 10 years....Why not. But we will have large genopool. We (or our breed) need not beautiful wolfdogs what you can see on italian shows (like you wrote) , but only from 1-2 bloodlines.
And about wolf characteristics: if you mean shynnes too, no thanks.
Wolfdog was created as working breed.

I love the way you put this! It's all so very true. Decreasing already small gene pools is what's ruined a lot of purebred dogs. It's similar to the Victorian show era, when people didn't know what we know now about genetic diversity. People were so concerned with the "perfect" dog (i.e. the look of the dog) that they destroyed the gene pools, the functionality of the dogs, and health problems shortly followed. I'd say the majority of the most unhealthy breeds that exist are the ones that have a history of show popularity. We owe it to this wonderful, new breed not to make the same mistakes of the past!

[robertomaggio]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Hi Lupis, you wrote this:
I seen many photos of Layla and I see nothing on wolf - no wolf characteristics. She is blackmasked with dark eyes and strange head. Nothing similar to wolf but many similatiries to shephard. Much worse than italian dogs in dog shows.

It is absolutly wrong view. What are wolf characteristics? This black mask comes from her father Blek. But we are happy, we can use him in his "end of life", because wolfdogs as breed need him. Tell me, how much males in Italy you have in "group of males" from Ayayk z Vlamy? Who is person or group of person (usually we use name- breed comission) who care about genopool in Italy?
I don´t care if it is "shepard" or no. Everything we can repair and corect by "breeding work". Yes, maybe it is work for 5 or 10 years....Why not. But we will have large genopool. We (or our breed) need not beautiful wolfdogs what you can see on italian shows (like you wrote) , but only from 1-2 bloodlines.
And about wolf characteristics: if you mean shynnes too, no thanks.
Wolfdog was created as working breed.

I agree in 100%.
Ciao
Roberto

[Minna]

Dear Ina and Michael, all the "new pups" are very beautiful . Lots of love, Minna

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hi Minna,

nice hearing from you.
Do mean the wolf or dog pups?
Could you please send us your new home number.

Michael

[robertomaggio]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Dear Roberto,

for a male European Wolf, 10 month



a female CSW, 10 month


a female CSW, 15 month



they are all similar and beautiful enough. As far as it is possible to judge with three photos made in different angles, different light and different people.

Greetings
Ina

Dear Ina
thank for photo.You are right.
When I read your comment I undestand that for you tihs work it's all.
BRAVA.
Roberto

[massimo]

Ehm....I don't think this thread was meant to be to Praise Zlata Palz Kennel ...
Again...totally out of thread showing a picture of your own dog saying "who is this".
No hard feelings Roberto but Layla is a nice CSW, no doubt, as is G'Maya and Cabernet but...it has nothing to do with this thread.
I mean...you all have nice and beautiful wolfdogs but CLEARLY the pics I posted are EXTREEMLY wolfish looking, much much more than average, that is why I posted the pics in the first place.
SO wolfish I was "hoping" there would be a bit of ignorance and superficiality in some (and it worked) who thought that the dogs were not pure CSW but hybrids, while of course I know for sure they are not, unless breeder Brnovska stopa or Feherlofia used pure wolf of course.

You guys are giving poor Paula a hard work sorting out threads which are totally out of thread.
If you want to praise your beautiful dog or your favourite kennel, just make a new thread.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by lupis

I seen many photos of Layla and I see nothing on wolf - no wolf characteristics. She is blackmasked with dark eyes and strange head. Nothing similar to wolf but many similatiries to shephard. Much worse than italian dogs in dog shows.

Dear Lupis,

your sense of humour is obviously sadly lacking as well as your ability to read my posting properly. To make it clear even for you, it was ironic...
But if your only concern is what wolfdogs should look like in Italian dog shows, I only can say in your language:
Buona notte Cane Lupo Cecoslovacco.

Michael

[Rona]

Originally Posted by lupis

I seen many photos of Layla and I see nothing on wolf - no wolf characteristics. She is blackmasked with dark eyes and strange head. Nothing similar to wolf but many similatiries to shephard. Much worse than italian dogs in dog shows.

Dear Lupis
Tell me why most of your posts are so negative, bitter and full of ill-feelings towards animals, humans and kennels? You seem a very frustrated and unhappy person... I really feel sorry for somebody like you: who sees around him/her only vices and bad intentions... We would be very grateful if for a change you could write someting pleasant. Have a try!

I suggest you shoud buy yourself a wolfdog pup. Believe me, he will teach you how to think positive and be optimistc even if his mask would be dark and head - strange.

[lupis]

Originally Posted by Rona

I suggest you shoud buy yourself a wolfdog pup. Believe me, he will teach you how to think positive and be optimistc even if his mask would be dark and head - strange.

I not say is very much wrong. But is funny for me if breeder say he breed wolf looking dogs and shows a shephard looking one. I like some Zlata palz dogs and for me Maya is very much nice and Jasna - very much small and very much weak but nice too. But Layla is less wolf in look as more dogs i see in my country on shows. Is my opinion.

I like many dogs - really many nice. And when i see nice dog i say. But I not like breeder who say "I the best".

[massimo]

As for Lupis...
I don't think you have EVER signed your posts.
Although I often agree with what you write (ehm...yes I do) and I like the fact that you write OPENLY and DIRECTLY what you think (too much hypocrisy lies in these forums...specially italian ones), for me you are just a TROLL, and therefore I treat you as a Troll, trying as much as possible not to feed you.
This is the first and last time I write directly to you, because on forums if you write without signing your name and without the possibility to be recognized you write without any responibility...that is too easy.
Oh..it reminds me of another user...who never signs his name...but he is too powerful
Massimo

[robertomaggio]

Originally Posted by massimo

As for Lupis...
I don't think you have EVER signed your posts.
Although I often agree with what you write (ehm...yes I do) and I like the fact that you write OPENLY and DIRECTLY what you think (too much hypocrisy lies in these forums...specially italian ones), for me you are just a TROLL, and therefore I treat you as a Troll, trying as much as possible not to feed you.
This is the first and last time I write directly to you, because on forums if you write without signing your name and without the possibility to be recognized you write without any responibility...that is too easy.
Oh..it reminds me of another user...who never signs his name...but he is too powerful
Massimo

Ciao Massimo
I agree wiht you.But why you don't fell well wiht me? Never I attach you and I respect your opinion.But no problems.
About Lupis,sorry but when you see my layla in expo? I take part in only 2 exposition in italy and Layla have 9 month only.And you speake about less CSW.Please if you are real men or real woman inform us about your identity or your CSW and we can beginn to discuss about serious metter.
In different case please.....
B.regards
Roberto

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

We're probably the first breeder in history breeding wolfdogs with extremely wolfish characteristics, like the heavy fur in the inner ears, without adding new wolfblood...
All that just by being kept in the same room and being fed with the same kind of food.

Thanks Massimo ! I fully agree with your first sentence about the praising. Not that I wouldn't mind a bit of praising by you now and then!
And I knew your intention for this posting right from the start...

And now especially for you my dear Lupis.
In very, very sloooow words...
My above quoted posting was supposed to be a joke on the comment on the "fur in the inner ear".
And I wrote in my second posting that it was ironic.
It was never meant in the way as you understood it or just wanted to understand it. Or better to say didn't understand it.
Got it now? Or shall I explain it a third time to you.
If it was misleading for the others here, I will of course apologize.
Frustrated, angry people have definitely no sense of humour.
Rona's advice to get a wolfdog puppy is a good idea.
That's gonna put things in the right place, your priorities will change soon...
Another thing.
I would strongly advice you to see an optician.
I can't see dark eyes and a strange head on Layla's picture.
But anyway, with your immense knowledge on the CSW standard you'll teach us all better.
By the way, I normally don't communicate with trolls.
You can take this as an honour if you like...

Pensare positivo Lupis,
Michael

[jasmine]

Aaaaaaaannnnd again a nice topic from our common, good friend .
Here is Lupis , who knows everything........!!!!!!
Strange that he is always behind his nick name and never answer the questions about his skills, experiences etc......
My dear, I think you are just dreaming about csw's we have got, we breed and we have ever seen!


Edit


PS: as I see I always sign my comments !!!!!!

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by jasmine

Aaaaaaaannnnd again a nice topic from our common, good friend .
Here is Lupis , who knows everything........!!!!!!
Strange that he is always behind his nick name and never answer the questions about his skills, experiences etc......
My dear, I think you are just dreaming about csw's we have got, we breed and we have ever seen!


Edit


PS: as I see I always sign my comments !!!!!!

Edit, we should not pay atention to a "troll"... Anyone can try to write many words about lineages, just checking the pedigrees of the dogs on the database. But it doesn't mean they are right.

Maybe it would be more sensible to discuss about WHAT is WOLFISH to all of us...
I had a nice possibility to see my girl and a Lithuanian wolf getting their noses together though the fence. Yes, she looked much more powerfull and muscular than a male wolf, who spent all of his life in a fenced area. So i have a question for breeders and other specialists - is it bad, if a wolfdog, who moves a lot, much more, than a wolf in a zoo, looks much more mighty than that animal?...

[draggar]

Seeing the pictures here makes me anxious to get Luna home and watch her grow up!

I like wolfy breeds. The northern European shepherds (GSD, Belgian shepherds (all flavors), Dutchies, etc..) look a lot like wolves (considering their instincts and temperaments, I guess they're the "closest" (for the lack of a better term?) to the wolves).

We even like our Finnish Spitz which are commonly mistaken for foxes (some even think they're fox-hybrids?).

IMO I'd like to see them wolf looking. While I'm still new to the breed the dogs in the pictures here look very wolfy to me.