Northern inuit dog - Page 7

tikaani · 29-01-2009, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolf

Ok ! Just a funny coincidence then...

Greetings Rolf

not realy, tikaani means wolf so a lot of people use it on sites... i work at anglian wolf society so trust me i wouldnt be travalin that distance every day to work, and if you still dont belive me ill send you my phone number so you can call me so you can check the area code on it.... its a bit silly thinkin that just becouse some one uses that name they must be the same person, like me thinkin that every one on here with the same name must be the same person, the uk aint that small.....

Juniorwolf · 29-01-2009, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikaani

not realy, tikaani means wolf so a lot of people use it on sites... i work at anglian wolf society so trust me i wouldnt be travalin that distance every day to work, and if you still dont belive me ill send you my phone number so you can call me so you can check the area code on it.... its a bit silly thinkin that just becouse some one uses that name they must be the same person, like me thinkin that every one on here with the same name must be the same person, the uk aint that small.....

Please sit down and drink a cup of tea

First of all you really don`t have to explain your self, you already stated that it is not you, should I have any reason not to trust what you say ?

I have never heard this name before(and I am sure many other people never have too) and thought of it as an unusual name, so ofcourse I thought it was the same person.
...I think it is a bit silly of you to get all jumpy about it, just because of a simple statement, who acually stated that if it was not you it must be someone who use the same name

...maybe Uk aint that small but some of you over there sure get all jumpy about nothing !

Greetings Rolf

Mikael · 29-01-2009, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

And way is there no CSV BLOODLINE FUNDATION for all breeders to put money into after every litter if they wont ??? maby like 5% / litter, and maby (wee) will have money to make some new bloodlines in the future...

Best regards / Mikael

Did nobody think that this was a good ide

???

Or do you think that the Cz and SL clubs will pay for it ??? then dream on...

Best regards / Mikael

tikaani · 29-01-2009, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolf

Please sit down and drink a cup of tea

First of all you really don`t have to explain your self, you already stated that it is not you, should I have any reason not to trust what you say ?

I have never heard this name before(and I am sure many other people never have too) and thought of it as an unusual name, so ofcourse I thought it was the same person.
...I think it is a bit silly of you to get all jumpy about it, just because of a simple statement, who acually stated that if it was not you it must be someone who use the same name

...maybe Uk aint that small but some of you over there sure get all jumpy about nothing !

Greetings Rolf

just seems people on here like too have a go all the time, i know some people on here have problems with certine people from the uk but thats between them, every time i have posted nice, normal topics on here people end up arguing and moning, so if i seem a bit funny about remarks then thats why, its a shame people couldnt get on, on here and help one unuther but it seems there more interested in having a go at one unuther insted of helping each uther

Juniorwolf · 29-01-2009, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikaani

just seems people on here like too have a go all the time, i know some people on here have problems with certine people from the uk but thats between them, every time i have posted nice, normal topics on here people end up arguing and moning, so if i seem a bit funny about remarks then thats why, its a shame people couldnt get on, on here and help one unuther but it seems there more interested in having a go at one unuther insted of helping each uther

I don`t mind arguing ...if it is constructive and not just pointing fingers at eachother

Posts from me will never be a personal attack, I rather ignorre persons I really don`t like, but that is just my way of dealing with it !

Greetings Rolf

Juniorwolf · 29-01-2009, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

Did nobody think that this was a good ide

???

Or do you think that the Cz and SL clubs will pay for it ??? then dream on...

Best regards / Mikael

Mikael I really don`t think money is the issue, but politic is

...and as Slovakia have the patronage of the breed it is the Slovakian club who decides if or when new lines will be a reality, but I agree that it is better to prevent than to repair

Greetings Rolf

Mikael · 29-01-2009, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolf

Mikael I really don`t think money is the issue, but politic is

...and as Slovakia have the patronage of the breed it is the Slovakian club who decides if or when new lines will be a reality, but I agree that it is better to prevent than to repair

Greetings Rolf

But if they have the money, what is the political problem ???
And way this delay, the sooner the better,
because this will take time to do...maby 12-16 years

I think...

Best regards / Mikael

Navajo · 29-01-2009, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfin

Sory, but now you make only mix and pet, and not help to breed, but play God.
This cann make SK club and not others. Yours dog all thime be only mix and not be real pure CSW and now and 10 or more year latter.
and You and others from UK make big eyes when breeder not wish sale for UK pupps.

I don't totally understand your post. I think if breeders intoduce CsV and Saarloos to their current Inuit stock they will have a very different looking breed in 5 years time, the dogs will have a type. Remember that the CsV started out as a cross. Even now, when explaining the breed you still hear, wolf x GSD.

Navajo · 29-01-2009, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolf

I don`t mind arguing ...

Greetings Rolf

Discussing and debating, nobody should be arguing.

Navajo · 29-01-2009, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

Did nobody think that this was a good ide

???

Or do you think that the Cz and SL clubs will pay for it ??? then dream on...

Best regards / Mikael

Can you elaborate please.

saschia · 29-01-2009, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikaani

seems to me u just dont want them over here for your own interests. maybe u dont get on with one or two of the breaders over here, thats your problem but dont take it out on the rest of the people over here.....

Well, for myself I can say that this would not be true. I don't have other breeding interests, than to give pups to good hands and to see my pups as parents of next generation.
But I must say that sometimes I am not sure if I like wolfdogs being bred in other countries - the reasons I stated before - there are pups produced from parents who do not correspond to the breed standard, there are wolfdogs which are shy and not able to be among people, and there are people who breed with other breeds or even mixes/wolves and falsify the parentage of ther pups, and I am not sure if I can trust them.

So I have mixed feelings - on one hand, I am very happy that people around the world appreciate this breed's great qualities (and consider them positive as I do), that there are people willing to spare a lot of time and money to be with these creatures, but on the other hand I am scared where they are taking it later. I actually don't understand why some countries like Slovakia or Czech republic have strict breeding rules (which are put upon us from the kennel union representing FCI), while in other countries people can do what they want and still their papers have the same value for public as ours.

Navajo · 29-01-2009, 20:34

Surely if they don't meet the requirements of the breed standard, before the mating of such dogs takes place, the clubs should make it clear that anything bred from those will not be registered. If the offspring are not registered, there is little or no point at all in breeding from them.

Mikael · 29-01-2009, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by saschia

I actually don't understand why some countries like Slovakia or Czech republic have strict breeding rules (which are put upon us from the kennel union representing FCI), while in other countries people can do what they want and still their papers have the same value for public as ours.

Agree totaly, and I do not understand way it is not the same for HD in all FCI contrys,
but the bonitation might still bee hard in some contrys...

Best regards / Mikael

Mikael · 29-01-2009, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navajo

Can you elaborate please.

Yes, I did think money might be the problem way nothing is happening,
but maby I was wrong ???

But still... some people are mad about that there is no new bloodline,
but are they ready to help ? by money or work ???

Regards / Mikael

Juniorwolf · 29-01-2009, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

But if they have the money, what is the political problem ???
And way this delay, the sooner the better,
because this will take time to do...maby 12-16 years

I think...

Best regards / Mikael

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

Navajo · 29-01-2009, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes, I did think money might be the problem way nothing is happening,
but maby I was wrong ???

But still... some people are mad about that there is no new bloodline,
but are they ready to help ? by money or work ???

Regards / Mikael

As in lack of money, to buy new stock in? Is that what you mean?

I think alot of people are willing to help in work and also financially to a certain extent too.

Juniorwolf · 29-01-2009, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navajo

Discussing and debating, nobody should be arguing.

When discussions and debating is about something you really care about, it sometimes turn in to arguing due to emotions, politic and different opinions about this subject and for me this is okey as long as people stick to the subject and don`t get personal

...but ofcourse we are all diferent, so I can only speak for my self !

Greetings Rolf

Juniorwolf · 29-01-2009, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

Agree totaly, and I do not understand way it is not the same for HD in all FCI contrys,
but the bonitation might still bee hard in some contrys...

Best regards / Mikael

Did you ever experience a bonitation first hand ?

Bonitation is deffently not hard by any means, acually in my opinion it is too "soft" ! ...meassuring(the only good part in my opinion) should really be no problem for a well socialized dog and the character test is really weak/soft, in the character test happens not anything unusual for at dog who lives in a big city and in my opinion it is a shame to call it a character test, it should(in my opinion) be called "test of defending it selves with and without owner", because that is all there happens at the character test.

Greetings Rolf

wolfin · 29-01-2009, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navajo

I don't totally understand your post. I think if breeders intoduce CsV and Saarloos to their current Inuit stock they will have a very different looking breed in 5 years time, the dogs will have a type. Remember that the CsV started out as a cross. Even now, when explaining the breed you still hear, wolf x GSD.

hmmm, but this be breeding plan for Inuit dogs, but not CSW. Whe cann help to us breed this mixes?

GalomyOak · 30-01-2009, 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolf

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

I think these are very good questions - they made me think of some more, too.

1. If a new wolf (or more) were introduced into the breed, how would this selection take place? I am still very new at this, so maybe this is written somewhere in the history - were the original wolves picked for certain qualities (like temperament, or health, for instance)? If so, I would think it was probably easier in the 1950's for the government of the time to select the ideal wolf to breed, than a breed club of any country in 2009. I think now, selection would be limited to only captive animals, which may have had some inbreeding/health/temperament problems already from humans. But, I don't know the laws of Europe exactly, I could be wrong.

2. In the 1950s, in the original breedings - were all offspring of the F1 breedings used? I think I remember reading somewhere, that some puppies sacrificed their lives if they were not usable. In today's more "humane" age, I don't think this would be acceptable, so this could mean large quantities of F1-F2 puppies that are "extras", and would probably need suitable homes for 10+ years minimum.

3. How would adding in more wolf genes affect legal status of the breed in all countries? In the US, for instance, wolfdogs up to F5 are considered dangerous and wild animals. Would the FCI accept this decision of a breed club willingly?

4. How do genetics act in the wild for wolves? I know with natural selection, it is very different - but I think there must be some degree of inbreeding naturally?

5. At what point are two dogs (or wolfdogs) considered genetically distant? With humans (again, in the US, this is what I know best, obviously), it is legal to marry your second cousin (your cousin's child, I think

) in some states, because the risk of genetic problems is lower (maybe...). How does this compare to a purebred dog over generations?

There are many risks, in addition to many benefits to consider, I think, if this ever took place. Definitely an interesting topic!

All of the best,
Marcy

29-01-2009, 20:34	#132
Navajo Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 14	Surely if they don't meet the requirements of the breed standard, before the mating of such dogs takes place, the clubs should make it clear that anything bred from those will not be registered. If the offspring are not registered, there is little or no point at all in breeding from them.