Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs-Australia

The dogs are pure. As I've said, the pedigree shows it. Genetic testing? Does every other breeder do genetic testing? Why should these dogs have DNA tests, when they've got a pedigree that shows they're pure, just like any other pure czw has. I don't know why you still put "pure" in quotes in reference to these dogs, when they've got a pedigree.

"Im glad you have two puppies you love and you want to speak out on their behalf BUT there is lot to be desired here." What do you mean by that?

The breeder said MAYBE the male was a mix, but that was only to the people on these forums after they'd being saying they were mixes. There is no reason to suggest the male is a mix. I've seen him and he's a beautiful example of the breed.

As I've said time and time again. I'm not going to listen to anyone unless they have proof. I don't care what experience they have without proof they're points are meaningless. It's very arrogant of them to say that someone's dogs aren't pure without proof. They're also setting themselves up well to be sued if these dogs are pure.

I remember when I was getting my pups, I noticed more slanderous talk about them on the DOL forums, where you talked about your wolfdog.

"The people that were breeding them are pretty private about them and dont sell to the public. Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks. Its not a official breed. Czechoslovakian Shepherds was the term they were using. Many years have passed though so I have no idea what they are doing now"

Firstly, "Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks" CzW weren't bred for looks either.

The breeder was very private? That doesn't sound very legitimate to me. Why were they so private? Were they even registered? Did they have pedigrees?

But then again pedigrees to show they're "pure" wouldn't even matter anyway as there is no such thing as a Czechoslovakian Shepherd.

Also from what I can gather you said they were Wolfdogs, but their name was Czechoslovakian Shepherd? A shepherd and a wolfdog are two different things.

Seems to me like nothing but a scam. I wonder what your definition of "responsible breeder" is...

[Ligerwolve2]

Why dont you answer my questions first?

Second, nice lol. Ok Im not going to give out sensitive information of where my dog came from but yes she is what people refer to as a wolfdog. As in a breed that was a cross of wolf to GSD. They have been breeding for nearly as long as the CzW but for working dogs. You are aware that there is a working dog register here in Australia?

Yes they are very responsible. They have to be. More responsible than most breeders and certainly put in more effort than the breeder of your pups I can assure you. Careful genetic testing was carried out.

You wont find anything about them online by the way. I wouldnt bother. Whether you believe me or not is besides the point. You know there is a term for people who defend their own actions by redirecting. My dog isnt in question. My dog was never bred from EVER. I never claimed her to be anything then what she is. I have her papers that detail everything but no I wont share them with you

I dont need to. Im not breeding.

If you would like to ask about the GSDs I do breed go ahead.

Slander LOL. You keep throwing that around but you cant take some one to court over repeating what you said publicly. The breeder said they COULD be crosses. The breeder said that and has not said otherwise. So yes they could be pure but they may not be.

I think you have 0 understanding of breeding. Or of the sheer number of dogs PTS every single day. One stat says 20, 000 animals. A responsible person cares about where the pups end up. A responsible person cares about the dogs they breed and the suffering an animal can go through because of genetic disorders.

Yeah you should listen because all you have demonstrated so far is that you dont care where they came from only that you got what YOU wanted NOW. Your dogs do not have papers. You cannot say they are CzWs for sure. Only cross. Thats what happens when you rush and put your desires above the dogs you claim to love. No better than buying a pup in a pet shop.

If the dogs are pedigree where are the papers? From what I understand there are non.

There is alot to be desired and I suggest you go read DOL a bit more. I dare you to go there and ask the same question LOL. Ive tried to be nice to you but what ever

Originally Posted by Ligerwolve2

Why dont you answer my questions first?

Second, nice lol. Ok Im not going to give out sensitive information of where my dog came from but yes she is what people refer to as a wolfdog. As in a breed that was a cross of wolf to GSD. They have been breeding for nearly as long as the CzW but for working dogs. You are aware that there is a working dog register here in Australia?

Yes they are very responsible. They have to be. More responsible than most breeders and certainly put in more effort than the breeder of your pups I can assure you. Careful genetic testing was carried out.

You wont find anything about them online by the way. I wouldnt bother. Whether you believe me or not is besides the point. You know there is a term for people who defend their own actions by redirecting. My dog isnt in question. My dog was never bred from EVER. I never claimed her to be anything then what she is. I have her papers that detail everything but no I wont share them with you

I dont need to. Im not breeding.

If you would like to ask about the GSDs I do breed go ahead.

Slander LOL. You keep throwing that around but you cant take some one to court over repeating what you said publicly. The breeder said they COULD be crosses. The breeder said that and has not said otherwise. So yes they could be pure but they may not be.

I think you have 0 understanding of breeding. Or of the sheer number of dogs PTS every single day. One stat says 20, 000 animals. A responsible person cares about where the pups end up. A responsible person cares about the dogs they breed and the suffering an animal can go through because of genetic disorders.

Yeah you should listen because all you have demonstrated so far is that you dont care where they came from only that you got what YOU wanted NOW. Your dogs do not have papers. You cannot say they are CzWs for sure. Only cross. Thats what happens when you rush and put your desires above the dogs you claim to love. No better than buying a pup in a pet shop.

If the dogs are pedigree where are the papers? From what I understand there are non.

There is alot to be desired and I suggest you go read DOL a bit more. I dare you to go there and ask the same question LOL. Ive tried to be nice to you but what ever

It's ravens spirit in Germany that can sue as they've been publically accused of fraud and mixing by some people on this thread WITHOUT EVIDENCE.

My dogs don't have papers? Yes they do. How would you know anyway. The info has even been posted onto the wolfdog database.

Also your so called "wolfdog"/"czechoslovakian shepherd" is nothing but deception. I'm experienced with these so called Czech shepherds, all they are is German shepherds, probably being exported out of Czech Republic or Slovakia. I don't know how you think they have foundation Czw stock in them, were breeders of them supposed to have gotten the stock from the military? If its not lies it wouldn't be so private. There is nothing "top secret" about dog breeding unless you're trying to hide something.

I find it very arrogant of you to constantly question me. When I've provided photos, I've provided links to the pedigree and explained myself. You however claim to have owned some possible mix or just normal German shepherd, called it a wolfdog, said the name was a czechoslovakian shepherd (which doesn't even exist) and then won't even show pictures, or tell any information about them because its "private". Well making it so very "private" seems like a good way to not let people know about yours or the breeders lies.

Also I understand you enquired about owning one of these Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and it never went through? I guess the breeder was just selecting for responsible owners.

[Ligerwolve2]

Simply because this thread is about CzWs and breeding them in Australia. I do not have one or have any to breed.

You havent answered a single question of mine.

What you have as I understand it is a printed out pedigree created on the computer of the breeder? Yes or no?

Do you have the ACTUAL papers. Not peices of paper. Because there are non registered here. So your puppies cannot have pedigree papers. I would geniunely like to know if the the parents do. Honestly Id like to but considering neither you or the breeder have shown this I dont know what you expect people to think?

I never said she was a Czech German Shepherd. They are just a particular line of GSD - who you may not know this but they too were actually called Alsation wolfdog im Australia lol. So even if she was just a GSD yes I could call her a wolfdog and be correct lol. I have always said I loved my beautiful wolfdog (RIP) and that I wanted a papered CzW. Because they are SIMILAR to her and the closest I will ever get to anything like her. I am doing the right thing. Are you?

When did you ask for a photo?

What does my dog have to do with breeding CzWs in Australia???

Ive been nothing but co-operative with your questions how about you be a bit forthcoming and honest and try the same.

[Ligerwolve2]

Actually I never asked for a pup. I emailed some questions that were of course ignored.

Also a number of people called to enquire because they were interested and the only questions the breeder asked were about money. Then they sent me messages asking if it was legit since that was claimed. I said actually there is doubt.

[Ligerwolve2]

So called Czech Shepherds LMAO. ROFL.

[Ligerwolve2]

You would know I emailed the breeder I said so myself on DOL. I also emailed when they contacted ME about the litter.

Here is my email:

Hi XXXX

Thank you for letting me know about your litter.

Id like to ask you a couple of questions.

What health tests have the parents had?

Are the parents available to view?

Also what screening process are you using for puppy buyers?

Do you have both bitches and dogs available?

Will they be desexed or not?

Sorry to be upfront but its important information before buying a pup.

Regards.

As you can see I never asked for a pup. Had he bothered to reply and give reasonable answers that is what I would have told people. People who may have wanted a pup. However no one that asked me bothered because his behaviour screams BYB. Im glad they didnt either.

There is no such thing as a Czechoslocakian Shepherd, end of story. I know German Shepherds were at one point called Alsation Wolfdogs. But a German Shepherd is now more correctly a dog as there is no recent wolf heritage in them, well not as recent as CzW anyway.

I haven't asked for photos, but I saw people on the forums have asked multiple times and you never produced them. Again, seems fishy. But why are you so private? What are you hiding?

I'm simply bringing this up as you quite obviously are liening or making out you owned something that was related to Czw, when its wasn't. If you're going to do that, atleast don't call them a Czechoslocakian Shepherd, when Czechoslocakian Shepherds are known to be what misleading breeders call they're German shepherds that were born in former Czechoslovakia. You claim they have czw in them, which is most likely lies, not only because I know what Czechoslocakian Shepherds are, but because there is no record of the military supplying czw stock to breeders, so they could basically breed them back to German Shepherds thus basically creating German shepherds again.

Also regarding the email you sent to the breeder, if I'd been him I would of ignored you as well. You asked if the pups would be desexed! obviously you know nothing about the breed, the best time to bring home a pup is 8 weeks, as this is when they are at a good age to leave their parents and settle in to a new family. If they leave later than that, you'll have all sorts of fitting in problems. We got our male at 8 weeks and our female at 4 months and I can tell you now, if we hadn't already had our male there, she would not of fitted in well at all, atleast not In the short term. So to suggest that the breeder has the pups desexed before 8 weeks clearly shows how ignorant and irresponsible you are. Good thing you were ignored.

[Ligerwolve2]

ROFL. So basically Im reading "I cant answer any questions of your so I will attack your dog even though you are not breeding her and not relevant to this discussion at all but I need desperately to redirect".

If you knew anything about breeding you would know SOME breeders do desex before 8 weeks so it is absolutely important to establish this before enquiring after a pup. Non of my dogs have been desexed at 8 weeks and you pointing the finger only shows how desperate you are.

You could at least enquire what my point of view is before accusing me of it LOL.

I bet you are Mystic. Funny they only joined after I joined in here and thats the only post.

Oh and your wrong I have posted photos of her on DOL and my FB. Perhaps you ought to get some kind of facts.

I have been upfront about my dog.

I see no point discussing her further. Me owning her has nothing to do with this breeder in the slightest. STAY ON TOPIC!!! Im allowed to own different breeds by the way

I still hope the actual breeder comes on here and clears things up. Id still like to believe its just all some sort of misunderstanding and they do infact care. You are only making me believe everyone else here is right and something not quite right is going on here.

[Ligerwolve2]

Oh and incase anyone is actually interested MY DOG LOOKS NOTHING LIKE A CZW AND IT WAS ONLY THE SIMILARITY IN BEHAVIOUR THAT IM LOOKING FOR.

SHE IS NOT A CZW OR A CROSS OF.

THE DOGS THAT WERE USED WERE FAR REMOVED AND OTHER BREEDS USED.

THEY WERE BRED TO WORK WORK WORK AND BE INDEPENDANT ENOUGH IN PARTICULAR SITUTIONS.

ITS A ONE OFF THAT I GOT HER AND I WILL NOT DEFAME THE PERSON WHO GOT HER TO ME SO YOU WILL NEVER GET ANY MORE THAN THAT FROM ME.

SHE IS NOT A GSD.

Hope that clears it all up for everyone not that its relevant. I simply was looking for a dog like her years ago and the CzW is the closest (which makes sense) to her personality which is why I would like one.

I have zero interest in cross breds. I do not care what the dog looks like. Its the temp. Im after.

The fact you even needed to ask if they would be desexed shows complete ignorance. No responsible vet would desex a pup before 8 weeks. Even EAD which is normally between 8-12 weeks is a very rare practise in private clinics, and it should be taken with great caution.

I'm not breeding either, yet you ask questions. Stop using that as an excuse. You can see the pedigree of my dogs, lets see the pedigree of yours. Post the pedigree and the photos as an attachment if you have nothing to hide.

Also forget about the whole "they have csv foundation stock in them", CZECHOSLOCAKIAN SHEPHERDS ARE NOTHING BUT AN INCORRECT TERM FOR GERMAN SHEPHERDS. Like I said, there is no record of the military giving csv stock to breeders so they can breed them back to German Shepherds. So unless you can prove that, it looks like your lying.

You ask questions about my Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs? I'll ask questions about your German shepherd who you liked to call a wolfdog. If there was something not quite right going on here, you'd get me saying "I'm not telling you any information, it's private. I won't defame the breeder." But clearly I'm not trying to hide anything like you.

We have history with breeding, showing and animal welfare. Everything the breeder did was proper. However expirience tells me any breeder that's very private and demands owners to not tell any information about their dogs, is not a reputable breeder.

*The questions of yours that I've ignored, are stupid questions. You asked me what the PTS rate is currently for dogs in Australia, how is that relevant to me?

[Ligerwolve2]

No. You want to discuss my dog start a thread. Your redirection isnt going to work here anymore.

Frankly I dont care if you think Im lying.

Do your dogs have FCI pedigree certificate? Do the parents?

[Ligerwolve2]

Oh and I worked in the animal industry for many years. Vets absoultely will desex at 8 weeks.

Yes your are right in that I personally think its not good for large breeds to be desexed before 12 months. However its considered a personal view. There is plenty of arguements for and against.

So you my friend are incorrect. Vets will desex at 8 weeks. Many registered breeders choose to do this. Not me so I like to ask.

You lied on the DOL forums, you said there was a fair amount of doubt with both dogs. If you bothered to see the name of the the female, you'd she was Spirit of the Wolf. Which is FCI registered, and is one of Germany's most well known Czechoslovakian Wolfdog breeders. Are you accusing Spirit of the Wolf of mix breeding?

Secondly, there are only 2 dogs that aren't registered on the males pedigree (all dogs on the females are) but those 2 dogs have registered parents. So there is definitelely no issues of purity as far as the pedigree is concerned.

I'm still waiting for the photos and pedigree of your German Shepherd.

[Ligerwolve2]

No. You want to discuss my dog start a thread. Your redirection isnt going to work here anymore.

Frankly I dont care if you think Im lying.

Do your dogs have FCI pedigree certificate? Do the parents?

Haha, I see you've decided to ignore the fact that you openly lied. Claiming that Spirit of the Wolf are in doubt.

Why don't you ask some of the Czech or Slovak czw breeders what they think of your "Czechoslovakian Shepherd"?

If she ever existed, by the way you're acting (refusing to show photos and papers) suggests you made it all up.

You want to see registrations, check the wolfdog database, the fact you even need to ask that question, clearly shows you haven't even bothered search them on the database.

[Ligerwolve2]

Ive asked you a question.

No. You want to discuss my dog start a thread. Your redirection isnt going to work here anymore.

Frankly I dont care if you think Im lying.

Do your dogs have FCI pedigree certificate? Do the parents?

[Ligerwolve2]

Last time I looked the sire and therefore your dogs are listed as possible crosses.

[Ligerwolve2]

http://www.wolfdog.org/site/fr/dbase/d/14944