Epilepsy and wolfdogs!? - Page 3

Margo · 09-11-2008, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xhrista

I think epilepsie (and every other ilniss) is genetic,only the way how is the Question.

I was looking for some statistics and found this: before in the most cases the vets classified most cases of epilepsy as idiopathic (it means genetic based). But there were some studies done in Denemark and published in the 'Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine' in June 2008. And the results were:
- 25% of cases were classified as idiopathic - GENETIC based
- 16% as symptomatic (cause unknown)
- 45% as cryptogenic epilepsy (cause unknown)
- in 14% of these a classification was not possible

You can not say about epilepsy as 'genetic' illenes when only 1/4 of the cases have something to do with genetic based reasons...

I agree we must note such cases and not use any dogs where it is not 100% sure the epilepsy is a secondary epilepsy... To be relly sure we can not use any dogs with epilepsy... But it is really not needed to start any witch hunt...

Margo · 09-11-2008, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel

what about a dog that is dysplastic and the owner tell's you that he made a slippery on the smooth surface when he was a young dog ...... would you use this dog also?

No. Smooth surface will cause dyspalsia only by dog which have genetic basis for the HD... You have the same with fat puppies - such puppies and heavy wolfdogs have more % of displatic dogs than wolfdogs in the wolf type (lighter)... We saw also the relationship between the HD results and type of food the dog gets...
But always there is some genetic reason behind it... and I would take it into consideration...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel

You wil never know if a dog is completely healthy also not if you get al the information from the owner... but I think it is not wise to use a dog with an ilness that is probably hereditary

Look, I'm not agaist you.. I really agree with you - I just follow the DR. House words "I don't ask why dog owners and breeders lie, I just assume they all do"...

No, I will not use such dog... But using healthy one I can never be sure if the dog is 100% healthy and the owner is not hiding some dark facts about his dog...

loco · 09-11-2008, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo

But using healthy one I can never be sure if the dog is 100% healthy and the owner is not hiding some dark facts about his dog...

You can, but than you have to wait until the dog is a year of 10.
It will be much easier to live but also boring if you know everything 100%

.

But I also believe not everything is genetic.

Groette Martine.

miran · 10-11-2008, 00:24

The only thing that bugs me with every Discussion about diseases
that every one jumps one rear legs. Why??????????

Everyone love the breed and want the best for it. Or not????

Maybe there aren't a lot who has epilepsy.We want to find out if there are and so how many etc because they do survey to the GEN of primary epilepsy:http://www.koirangeenit.fi:80/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id= 18&Itemid=44

I don't believe that other country's don't have dogs whit epilepsy because my dog is one of those in Holland that has it and her breeder has lots of dogs all over Europe from the same line.And it is a race what has arisen from the German shepherd. That line is much more sensitive to epilepsy.So i don't understand that people jumps on there rear legs because if you know things you can make the breed better. No it does not mean that you know if a dog is 100% healthy but why make the change that you can have a unhealthy dog bigger?????? That's not what you want for the dog if you really love him/her. Is it????

Manishdra · 10-11-2008, 14:20

I think Epilepsy shouldn't be taken lightly. And of course there are many influences that can cause secundair epilepsy. But is there anyone who wants to take the risk to breed with a dog with primairy epilesy?

I could say that my dog has bumpt her head into something when she was young. So can I breed now? No, I will not breed with her because the risk is to high. I don't want little puppy's with epilepsie and I don't want a breed with a lot of epilesie. And it is very pitty, because my darling has a very good karakter.

How can you verify that it is something from the out-side? For example the wolfdog earlyer spoken of had many "witnesses" but who says that is was the hitting on the head that caused the epilepsy? Maybe is was the primairy what came later on in his life.

If my dog had bumped her head very heavy in the past... could I point the epilepsy to that? Or should I not take the risk that it could be primairy epilespy? Ok, with some things you can profe it, like the cleaning stuff... when it is gone there will be no attack and visa versa. But you can't profe everything, and then you are taking a risk!

Something else: There came somewhere the statement that I could be something here in the netherlands that could cause the "lange amount of" epilesy here. But could it not be that a lot of owners do not know that their dogs have epilesie? A lot of wolfdog owners, keep then out-side in a large kennel. How do you know a dog of you had an attack? Because of the faeces or urin? Maybe because he/she is out of breath or is covered slime? Or could all of that have a more les dramatic cause? It had a real need or had just played a lot? And than I am talking about the worse type of epilepsie, not the "lighter" types, which leave no signs behind.

Ofcourse I'm not saying that you should see epilepsy everywhere. But I get the idea from some reactions that epilepsy is taken to light... and I think we all agree we don't want epilepsy as a disease that comes with the breed, like with other breeds.

loco · 10-11-2008, 14:51

I'm sorry, but I do not think that anyone here thinks lightly about the disease

.

elf · 11-04-2010, 08:32

Omega 3 supplementation may help your epileptic dog.

"Epilepsy Behav. 2009 Aug;15(4):527-8. Epub 2009 Jun 21.

Positive impact of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in a dog with drug-resistant epilepsy: a case study.

Scorza FA, Cavalheiro EA, Arida RM, Terra VC, Scorza CA, Ribeiro MO, Cysneiros RM.

Disciplina de Neurologia Experimental, Universidade Federal de São Paulo/Escola Paulista de Medicina (UNIFESP/EPM), São Paulo, Brazil. [email protected]
Abstract

Epilepsy is the most common neurological disorder in both dogs and humans. Although the pharmacological options for treatment of epilepsies have increased, it has been reported that two-thirds of dogs with epilepsy are refractory to antiepileptic drug therapy. To our knowledge, there are no experimental studies in the literature that show an effect of omega-3 supplementation on epilepsy in dogs. Our case study describes the effectiveness of daily intake of a moderate amount of fish oil in a case of canine epilepsy."

elf · 06-06-2011, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by elf

Omega 3 supplementation may help your epileptic dog.

"Epilepsy Behav. 2009 Aug;15(4):527-8. Epub 2009 Jun 21.

Positive impact of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in a dog with drug-resistant epilepsy: a case study.

Scorza FA, Cavalheiro EA, Arida RM, Terra VC, Scorza CA, Ribeiro MO, Cysneiros RM.

Disciplina de Neurologia Experimental, Universidade Federal de São Paulo/Escola Paulista de Medicina (UNIFESP/EPM), São Paulo, Brazil. [email protected]
Abstract

Epilepsy is the most common neurological disorder in both dogs and humans. Although the pharmacological options for treatment of epilepsies have increased, it has been reported that two-thirds of dogs with epilepsy are refractory to antiepileptic drug therapy. To our knowledge, there are no experimental studies in the literature that show an effect of omega-3 supplementation on epilepsy in dogs. Our case study describes the effectiveness of daily intake of a moderate amount of fish oil in a case of canine epilepsy."

Here are given quantities:

fish oil (oral omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids, 2 g/day)

Extract:

A 2-year-old female Great Dane with a history of recurrent seizures
was brought to a veterinary neurologist. Tonic–clonic seizures
occurred at a frequency of three times per month and were
characterized by facial automatisms, forelimb clonus, rearing and
falling, and loss of consciousness. After a detailed physical and neurological
examination, evaluation of hematology and serum biochemistry,
and magnetic resonance imaging of the brain, the
veterinarian diagnosed the condition as idiopathic epilepsy and began
treatment aimed at seizure control. A trial therapy with phenobarbital
(2.5 mg/kg, twice a day orally) failed to adequately control
the seizures: after 8 weeks of treatment there remained two seizure
episodes per month. Typically, potassium bromide is used to
supplement phenobarbital in refractory cases. However, in this
case, it was decided to supplement the dog’s diet with moderate
amounts of fish oil (oral omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids,
2 g/day). The frequency of the epileptic seizures markedly fell after
50 days of combination therapy with phenobarbital and omega-3
fatty acid. During the subsequent 18-month period, seizure frequency
fell to one per 3 months, a reduction of about 85%.

10-11-2008, 14:20	#45
Manishdra Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nijmegen Posts: 331	I think Epilepsy shouldn't be taken lightly. And of course there are many influences that can cause secundair epilepsy. But is there anyone who wants to take the risk to breed with a dog with primairy epilesy? I could say that my dog has bumpt her head into something when she was young. So can I breed now? No, I will not breed with her because the risk is to high. I don't want little puppy's with epilepsie and I don't want a breed with a lot of epilesie. And it is very pitty, because my darling has a very good karakter. How can you verify that it is something from the out-side? For example the wolfdog earlyer spoken of had many "witnesses" but who says that is was the hitting on the head that caused the epilepsy? Maybe is was the primairy what came later on in his life. If my dog had bumped her head very heavy in the past... could I point the epilepsy to that? Or should I not take the risk that it could be primairy epilespy? Ok, with some things you can profe it, like the cleaning stuff... when it is gone there will be no attack and visa versa. But you can't profe everything, and then you are taking a risk! Something else: There came somewhere the statement that I could be something here in the netherlands that could cause the "lange amount of" epilesy here. But could it not be that a lot of owners do not know that their dogs have epilesie? A lot of wolfdog owners, keep then out-side in a large kennel. How do you know a dog of you had an attack? Because of the faeces or urin? Maybe because he/she is out of breath or is covered slime? Or could all of that have a more les dramatic cause? It had a real need or had just played a lot? And than I am talking about the worse type of epilepsie, not the "lighter" types, which leave no signs behind. Ofcourse I'm not saying that you should see epilepsy everywhere. But I get the idea from some reactions that epilepsy is taken to light... and I think we all agree we don't want epilepsy as a disease that comes with the breed, like with other breeds. Last edited by Manishdra; 10-11-2008 at 14:22.

10-11-2008, 14:51	#46
loco Non active. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Outside, walking the dog. Posts: 2,873	I'm sorry, but I do not think that anyone here thinks lightly about the disease . __________________ Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away .

11-04-2010, 08:32	#47
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	Omega 3 supplementation may help your epileptic dog. "Epilepsy Behav. 2009 Aug;15(4):527-8. Epub 2009 Jun 21. Positive impact of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in a dog with drug-resistant epilepsy: a case study. Scorza FA, Cavalheiro EA, Arida RM, Terra VC, Scorza CA, Ribeiro MO, Cysneiros RM. Disciplina de Neurologia Experimental, Universidade Federal de São Paulo/Escola Paulista de Medicina (UNIFESP/EPM), São Paulo, Brazil. [email protected] Abstract Epilepsy is the most common neurological disorder in both dogs and humans. Although the pharmacological options for treatment of epilepsies have increased, it has been reported that two-thirds of dogs with epilepsy are refractory to antiepileptic drug therapy. To our knowledge, there are no experimental studies in the literature that show an effect of omega-3 supplementation on epilepsy in dogs. Our case study describes the effectiveness of daily intake of a moderate amount of fish oil in a case of canine epilepsy." __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html

10-11-2008, 00:24	#44
miran Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 245	The only thing that bugs me with every Discussion about diseases that every one jumps one rear legs. Why?????????? Everyone love the breed and want the best for it. Or not???? Maybe there aren't a lot who has epilepsy.We want to find out if there are and so how many etc because they do survey to the GEN of primary epilepsy:http://www.koirangeenit.fi:80/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id= 18&Itemid=44 I don't believe that other country's don't have dogs whit epilepsy because my dog is one of those in Holland that has it and her breeder has lots of dogs all over Europe from the same line.And it is a race what has arisen from the German shepherd. That line is much more sensitive to epilepsy.So i don't understand that people jumps on there rear legs because if you know things you can make the breed better. No it does not mean that you know if a dog is 100% healthy but why make the change that you can have a unhealthy dog bigger?????? That's not what you want for the dog if you really love him/her. Is it????