My Worst Nightmare

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

24-hours as a nightmare Vlcak seems a pretty good boy ..

I think you can find many happy owners of normal Vlcaks who will say their little nightmare was for about two years or so ...

Quite - for such a self professed 'expert' to be surprised by this behaviour from a young and displaced Vlcak, also says a lot.

[pixie]

Originally Posted by Shoshone

As some of you may know I have Braveheart { Moon }
He has now been with me for a couple of months this is how Moon has developed since he has been with me at Wolfzone kennels uk.
Moon came here as his owner had serious issues with him as you will see from an email she sent me which I will add to this post.
Had Moon not have come to me he was going to be put to sleep.
I paid the outstanding money owed for the dog to his owner in the uk.
I paid a nominal fee for Moon and he is my dog he is not stolen and the contract is in the favour of the previous owner in the uk.
I am not here to argue I am clearly stating that Moon is owned by Wolfzone kennels.
He was m worse nightmare for 24 hours and I wondered what I had took on when I was stuck in a kennel with a rabid dog baring all his teeth and roaring at me.
Myself and Kirsty have spent an incredible amount of time working with Moon, I am not going to bore you with an account of everything we have done, and I don’t have the time to sit at the pc for hours.
It just goes to show you how much work has been done with him, Moon has a two day film shoot for the BBC next week.

EMAIL FROM TESSA BROWN TO ANDRE AT WOLFZONE KENNELS UK

Tale of caution for all people who are considering importing a puppy in from Europe
Dont!
MY simple and clear advice
This is my experience

I met someone who told me about this woman who was supposedly a really good family breeder in Bulgaria. she was also getting a puppy form her...
She had one puppy left and i connected with her and i told her that i needed a low ranking male, she assured me he was that and we agreed for me to buy him. She agreed to drive him over here and it all went according to plan. I was slightly concerned when she told me one of her dogs used to sit and watch him eat in case he missed something and the other cause of concern was he really missed another pack member when taken away. Little things come back to you...later on.
When he came he was an angry little puppy. Very grumpy and biting everything he could. She hadnt fed him much on the way over so he had started to eat his own shit which they do when theyre hungry
After two days she had to come and stay with me as i really wasnt getting on with him. My bitch didnt like him, his biting was off the richter scale and she stayed for a bit, on walks he was growling at other puppies. She kept making excuses for him and saying this was normal. At this point i should have given him back, but i dont give up easily and i also didnt know at this point the first 17 weeks are the most CRUCIAL in this breed of dog in their socialisation and development ( The daily mail recently had an article about this and how the wolf gene is different to the dog in development) I was already fighting a losing battle unbeknown to me, one he was actually an Alpha male and two he hadnt got the sufficient work in place that is essential for their well being.
I remember the amount of walking i had to do despite hime being a puppy as he was very aggressive still and hanging off myself and my bitch. I managed to stop this behaviour eventually but still couldnt work out why he was still growling at other dogs and puppies.
He went on to puppy classes and he did very well. We did our bronze obediance and passed. At the end of the classes i was noticing a new behaviour starting, he was lungeing at other dogs.
We moved to a very rural place. I tried to find good classes for him but at this point his lungeing at other dogs was becoming hard work.We met a trainer and she disciplined him for something and he left her arm dripping blood from his claws. He wasnt having someone tell him anything. We went to her puppy classes and his behaviour was appalling.
I found another behaviourist who said i would have problems with him and he would become aggressive. I didnt believe her and carried on with my training and walking them in remote and unpopulated places in a local forest and in the semi dark, so i didnt meet others.
I sent him to a residential trainer where he smashed up the kennel on the first night causing 500 pounds worth of damage and he was very difficult to work with so he came back early.
We came across one dog running towards us off lead and the owner had no recall, he got the lead out of my hands and ran up to the dog and body slammed him to the ground. He did have good recall and then came back. I was upset at this point. Walking had become a chore and a worry not the peaceful and relaxing time in Nature necessary to my mental and physical well being.
We did go to a wolfdog show, where he was lungeing a lot and being very nippy to my friends, which i dont accept or like. It was a very stressful weekend and i was more than exhausted. I decided to look into castration, but after pressure from the breeder about how he should be left to develop until two i didnt do it.
I did think about rehoming him at this point. The breeder suggested i gave him to a man who i didnt know or think was suitable. Not knowing anything about him and he was a long way from me so i wouldnt have been able to check on his progress. There were other factors but thats not relevant for here. I decided no and i would continue with working with him and doing my best. I started working with mushing them and walking them on a line and in harnesses. They both got fitter and stronger and our walks became faster and more furious. I noticed a change in his play, he started grabbing her back a lot but really hanging on to it. I stopped play when it got like that, and i wasnt happy about that at all.
I had another behaviourist in. The concensus was he wasnt socialised enough ( this is going back to the first 17 weeks, i got him at 15) so where can i socialise a big male with an attitude and lungeing problem and with whose dog? You cannot do this with unknown animals that belong to the general public and i couldnt find anyone with a dog i could use as a stooge with the right temperament. He had a chemical castration so i could see the effects of no testosterone and the behaviour continued, he wasnt interested sexually in any other dog. He continued to get worse.
Then the fight happened. I was walking at this point in a friends private wood. They were in the back of my land rover when all hell broke loose in the back right behind my head. I opened the back door and managed to get them out and it was stopped. His nose was bleeding, he had gone for my bitch, she had defended herself ( she has NEVER been in any fight in her life. She is four and a half). the next day we were out for nearly 3 hours so i thought they would be quite tired the following day. Not so, i let them off lead and the agitation between them was obvious, at this point he was running alongside her and grabbing her back hard.I stopped play and went home. We met someone with a male dog on the way back, his attempts to get the male dog were so determined i had to put the line round a tree to hold him. At this point i gave up and made a phone call to Andre. I couldnt risk a fight in the middle of nowhere and my girl getting hurt. How would i have got her to safety and managed to contain him at the same time? The simple answer is it would have been impossible. His size was much bigger than her and he was determined with winning the fight for supremacy in the household. He was not the right dog to be in my family and environment
Luckily Andre helped me
It broke my heart. I was so torn and upset as i had tried my absolute best. Then the breeder turned against me, after sending Andre an email thanking her for rescuing him, then demanding him back. I am happy with my choice and decision. He is happy and is unstressed and much calmer. He was never going to fit in my house and it was a potential terrible accident waiting to happen. I did consult many people who had experience with my story and who are behaviourists. They told me i was being responsible and doing the right thing.
I stand by my decision with MY dog. I was not handing him over to a woman who missold me him the first place and couldnt do the right socialisation,bring in bite inhibition, stop food aggression and who wanted me to give him to people she choose despite not knowing them and her living abroad. I have regular contact with Andre and Moon, in fact i cant tell you how hard everyone works to ensure the high standards of cleanliness, the good quality food they are fed, the training and socialising that is done. It is the best possible place for him. he was not a dog that could have been rehomed to a family. I didnt mention the destruction either and that was with the huge amount of physical exercise and mental stimulation he had with me. He was not the right dog in the right house and that is what the breeder should be aware of. My heart was destined to be broken right at the beginning. Now i see and hear many stories which are libellous and slanderous about me and Andre. How sad is that. He is happy and healthy and in a good place where i can remain in contact and he doesnt slip down the slippery rehoming slope where dogs with issues and problems invariably go ending up in awful homes, chained up and much worse. I was responsible for his well being and i made the right informed decision. He is a different animal know as Andre knows more about the wolf dogs than anyone i have come across. She is the best possible person to bring out the best qualities in him. I respect her and i trust her. He is happy and thats all that mattters. Moral of the story do NOT buy from abroad. You cannot ensure what you are getting, the work put in, munay had terrible seperation anxiety as all the puppies were kept together and then he was pulled away for his journey. He smashed crates like egg boxes as a result. He had bad food aggression when he came, he had no manners at all, he bit badly..and the saddest of all being sold the wrong dog after specifically asking for low ranking and being given a top ranking male he was destined never to stay. You do not want to go through this. It is the most heartbreaking experience i have had to deal with in many years. It also could have been avoided. Do not buy from abroad.

Hi my internet has been down for a few weeks but now i have caught up on this thread, I am the man mentioned on here as someone she didnt know or think was suitable, when Christine first asked me to help, I said i would including taking him on myself if that was nessesary, i can assure you all, that Christine was both concerned about Tessa, her other dog (which i believe is a Saarloos cross but not sure) and Braveheart i contacted Tessa through facebook to find out what the problem was and see how i could help, she was rude and not interested and told me not to contact her again, so i could do no more, i currently have 2 CsV's a female and a male and no i have no intention to breed with either (they are brother and sister), I have also rehomed one to a family near me as the breeder Mr Winder would not even answer the owners telephone calls, until i contacted him and he wanted him back until he heard he had been neutered and his interest waned to the point he would not answer me, so yes Christine and I had planned for me to take him if Tessa could'nt cope, and to Andre i would say if it is not a stud dog from good European stock you want him for, I will come and take him to the vets and have him castrated at my cost. This rant by both Tessa and Andre is just typical of people buying the dogs for financial reasons, if its not financial give him back to the breeder like anyone responsible would do
hope this clears things up but again Christine was trying to help Tessa but Andre turned her head with £££££ signs the pictures of braveheart at the "wolfdog" show do not show him being aggresive around other dogs
thanks

[pixie]

Shoshone, you said you paid the outstanding money owed for this dog to the owner in the UK, I would understand by that you mean Tessa, as this money hasnt been forwarded to the breeder, then Tessa is not the legal owner as in this country you only own something when it has been paid for in full, so that being the case Tessa has fraudulently taken money from you, so as a so called responsible breeder yourself you should return the dog to the breeder (at the breeders cost) and take legal action against Tessa for fraud, this i believe is how you would expect someone to behave if the tables were turned.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by pixie

Shoshone, you said you paid the outstanding money owed for this dog to the owner in the UK, I would understand by that you mean Tessa, as this money hasnt been forwarded to the breeder, then Tessa is not the legal owner as in this country you only own something when it has been paid for in full, so that being the case Tessa has fraudulently taken money from you, so as a so called responsible breeder yourself you should return the dog to the breeder (at the breeders cost) and take legal action against Tessa for fraud, this i believe is how you would expect someone to behave if the tables were turned.

Good point to have the real intentions and credibility of Shoshone displayed. I wonder if she passes the ethical breeder's "honesty test"

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

We will not leave any stone unturned trying to get him back but I wanted to make this public so that all other breeders could see what can happen in the UK. I made a terrible error in judgement in allowing the pup to go to this woman in the first place, who became a different person once she had possession. I would urge any breeder considering sending any pup to the UK to ensure that the ownership and pedigree registration remain in joint names with the owner until such times as the breed is KC recognised as well as adding a clause in the contract whereby any use of their dog in cross breeding (by the original owner or by anyone they pass the dog onto) is liable to a large fine. Honest owners will have no problem in signing contracts with these clauses as they will never have any intention of breaking it, but it will give you, the breeder, some peace of mind.

I would never even dream of doing Something like this! It's people like this that make it hard for breeders to trust the potential dog owner. When the day comes that I am fully ready to own one of these dogs(I am financially, emotionally and physically unable to care for a vlcak right now) I will treat the breeder and dog with upmost respect.

-Oh.. I'm new here.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Morgan

I would never even dream of doing Something like this! It's people like this that make it hard for breeders to trust the potential dog owner.

isn't that the truth?? a really good point made, that it shows incredible disrespect and an affront for the kennel and breeder at Shadowlands Bulgaria!!!!!


and welcome to the forums, Morgan

[pixie]

I have pm Andre on Facebook to ask her to speak to the breeder to try and resolve this situation and to answer these posts

[Shoshone]

May be you all would have been happier had i let Tessa put the dog to sleep.
I am sick of all o your comments, just be great full Moon has a good home.
Just so you are all clear Moon is moving to a family home 3 miles from me to live with a friend of mine.
NO I have not sold him I have given him to my friend on a permanent loan to keep a female wolf dog company.
I do not wish to answer any more of your questions and if the contract had been written up correctly maybe you would have some power to get the dog back but it wasn't.
Moon should have NEVER been left in the uk, it was obvious that Tessa could not cope with him and she told Christine this when she brought him here SO WHY DID SHE LEAVE HER DOG IN AN UNSUITABLE HOME!!!!!!!!
SAY WHAT YOU LIKE BUT i WILL NOT POST On THIS TOPIC AGAIN.
Some of us prefer to spend time with our dogs not sat on our fat judgmental asses on the pc.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Shoshone

Moon should have NEVER been left in the uk

Right, so the breeder is requesting to take him back OUT of the UK. What's the problem?

[Tassle]

Ignoring the relevant points that everyone has made, attempting to justify keeping dog who will continue to bring in money and some insults thrown in for good measure.
Says it all.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Tassle

Ignoring the relevant points that everyone has made, attempting to justify keeping dog who will continue to bring in money and some insults thrown in for good measure.
Says it all.

Well, the truth sometimes hurts

[Tazer]

Originally Posted by Tassle

Ignoring the relevant points that everyone has made, attempting to justify keeping dog who will continue to bring in money and some insults thrown in for good measure.
Says it all.

Indeed it does.


Taz

[pixie]

Would just like to say I have been speaking to Andre on Facebook about this and she has been very polite even with the provocation from me and is looking for a final resolution to this as well I think, but I don't think that involves giving up the dog

[Rona]

By pure accident I came upon this link. Is this Breaveheart?????

http://www.wolfzone.info/index.php?p...-for-sale.html

Could somebody explain WHY this dog is on sale?

[avgrunn]

Rona, they have explained "Reason for sale we are cutting down on breeding." :/

This is pretty scary, but this is not the first time and certainly not the last that people are treating dogs just as a mean of earning money.

£1,250 is a lot of money, I just hate that

[Rona]

Originally Posted by avgrunn

Rona, they have explained "Reason for sale we are cutting down on breeding." :/

This is pretty scary, but this is not the first time and certainly not the last that people are treating dogs just as a mean of earning money.

£1,250 is a lot of money, I just hate that

But as far as I know the case re the ownership of this dog is now at UK court!
I wonder if potential buyers of Moon are going to be informed about this situation. Seems an attempt to get rid of a "hot potato"?

[Gia]

How is that possible to sell a dog in such situation?????????? Very suspicious...

[Tassle]

So sad - yet so predictable

[yukidomari]

But he describes the dog quite favorably - nothing like what the original owner described.

Maybe her description was all just false, or she had no idea what she was doing with the dog.

Either way, another good thing to bring to court.

[Shadowlands]

Hello everyone.

I'm sorry I have been so silent regarding what has happened re Braveheart but there has been a court case running and I didn't feel it pertinent to post during that. The ruling was made yesterday that I am to be paid the outstanding money and costs - but we will have to wait and see how smoothly that goes...

As for my boy Braveheart, he was bought back off of Andre Tanner for a ridiculous amount of money. He is currently being fostered in the UK and has settled very well. His passport was not passed on with him and, on enquiry about this, we were told that the page containing his Rabies stamp was missing?? This page cannot just 'fall out' of a passport as you all know... He has been castrated so that there is no chance of him ever being used as a stud in the UK again.

All in all, we have reached a satisfactory end to this nightmare and I, for one, am happy it is all over. It does seem, however, that a contract is a viable document in a UK Court of law - despite what I was originally told by a UK Lawyer.

I would like to personally thank Admin for their unprompted action in marking my boy as STOLEN - even though I had not considered this as an option. As a result of this being done, a post was written in this thread which subsequently proved to be pivotal in my successful court case. I cannot thank you enough Admin

Many of you provided me with strength and support throughout all of this and I would like to thank you for that. There were times I came close to giving up, but you kept me going.

A huge thank you from myself and Braveheart. Here is a photo of him (now known as Beanz) with his new best doggy friend

http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Sadie_Land/library/