British Kennel Club Recognition - Page 3

Shadowlands · 11-09-2011, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalcon

ronnie has two new wolfdogs coming in before christmas, he has shown me how it is done and he has told lots of people how to do it,,,,,,but again no one imports, TO MUCH HASSLE,,,,,,,

Or maybe they were more interested in having a young puppy, to form a long and lasting bond of trust with, than to bring in an older dog and breed with it almost immediately??

Most reasonable people choose the breeder they do because they trust and respect that person and their motives and the way they protect the breed, NOT because they get a free day out, with lunch...

It seems to me that most of the breeders in the UK are responsible for the situation they are in - you(r beloved Ronnie) included. Cross breeding (often secretly) and not continuing the push for Kennel Club recognition have put the breed in a very bad position, not to mention the crossing with wolves and reintroducing them (again under cover) into Europe. Most on this forum want the breed to be a success the world over, but it seems the UK is maybe beyond help

- and slagging off UK owners of dogs from other breeders is just petty and demeaning, so STOP IT!

Rona · 11-09-2011, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

you(r beloved Ronnie)

!!!

Tazer · 11-09-2011, 13:23

Why if they loved the breed so much and went through all that effort fighting to have them removed from the DWAL, would they then cross them with wolves etc?

What possible good could/has it had for the csv breed, both here in the uk and as a whole?

Or, is it just a case of supply and demand?

Oh and has it occured to you that perhaps the reason why other people haven't imported already, is because they might want a puppy, as opposed to a juvinile or adult.

P.s.

Tupac's owner is the kind of person I want to see breeding in this country, there might be some hope for the breed here then. As it stands, all I see now is a mess, that needs cleaning up.

Taz

Shadowlands · 11-09-2011, 13:32

You're on the same wavelength as I am, Tazer

happyfeet · 11-09-2011, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazer

Why if they loved the breed so much and went through all that effort fighting to have them removed from the DWAL, would they then cross them with wolves etc?

What possible good could/has it had for the csv breed, both here in the uk and as a whole?

Or, is it just a case of supply and demand?

Oh and has it occured to you that perhaps the reason why other people haven't imported already, is because they might want a puppy, as opposed to a juvinile or adult.

P.s.

Tupac's owner is the kind of person I want to see breeding in this country, there might be some hope for the breed here then. As it stands, all I see now is a mess, that needs cleaning up.

Taz

Are you now encouraging tupacs to breed her cross in the U.K. forgive me but I was sure you was against this?..why encourage breeding why not just encourage more understanding of the breed and instead of slapping cross owners on the back for their opinions,good work and so called protection of the breed {however how you can say they protect the breed when they have bought a crossed dog from the very breeders you all dislike is beyond me} this forum seems very much if your in our gang your ok even if you by buying a crossbreeded dog you are promoting this further each time you walk it and tell people about your dog..I think that shadowlands is correct I would hope that people feel that from Jan 2012 they can buy a puppy,develop an understanding of the breed and develop a bond with a life long companion and not just see the breed as a money making adventure!!! I moved to the uk for work with my family pet! I had to leave her in quarrentine and its was the most horrible thing ever to do...she isnt a status symbol,she isnt a breeding dog she is loved adored and I am constantly learning from her. education and promotion of this breed is most needed here in the UK but remember that all UK owners are not all breeders! dont intend to do so ! most of us just want to promote the breed and develop our understanding of them along side you all...and not as some of your forum members are doing holding court with their inuits in wolfdog clothing!!....

tupacs2legs · 11-09-2011, 14:55

So we agree on one thing. 'Happyfeet' about encouraging understanding of the breed.

....Oh so now my Tupac is a cross is he...how convinient

And where have I ever said I would breed him?

tupacs2legs · 11-09-2011, 15:06

I find it very sad and cannot understand why fellow csv lovers are attacking me? For what? For loving the breed and loving my dog?surely we should unite?

tupacs2legs · 11-09-2011, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyfeet

your dog is as you call a MUTT, however I find that not polite..

I dont ask you to agree with me your opinion is your own as a forum I think I am right to share mine?

And worry that you are being encouraged to breed your dog by other members which really isnt the answer is it?

What do u know about Tupac? He is an unregistered csv.....yes I do have two 'mutts' as well that I love dearly...your point is?

Nebulosa · 11-09-2011, 15:45

Let me see, let me see... no paragraphs and tons of (,,,,) or (....) , oh, I was so happy you were being able to avoid shaking your fingers at these keys that I tried to ignores the warn of Yukidomari about your possible new account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs

I find it very sad and cannot understand why fellow csv lovers are attacking me? For what? For loving the breed and loving my dog?surely we should unite?

As you can see they have double (or more) personality, but one thing they clearly fear most is some kind of "competition" in their unetical breeding of mixes, then they are scared about the possibilitie of you breed like them without being one if his nice little friends.
Acting like they do, the last thing you can call them is "CzW lovers".

hedeon · 11-09-2011, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalcon

...he openly online via me invites you and some friends to his kennels as you live close to him...

Well, say 'thank you' from me to mr Winder, for his generous offer. Don't want to be rude, but don't really see a point of such visit, as I don't think I need a help with importing puppy. I already took my decision.

Shadowlands · 11-09-2011, 15:56

Tupac is not a MUTT - only his mother and himself are non-FCI and this is simply because the UK Kennel Club do not yet recognise the breed; as soon as they do, he will be registered - he is a CsV, pure and simple. We should try to see round the cross breeders in the UK and recognise that there are some (albeit only a few) real CsV's born in the country. At no point has Tupac's owner said she will breed (in fact has expressly told me she does not wish to), so please get your facts straight before launching an attack.

You know how horrible it was to have your baby in quarantine

. These new rules make it possible for people to bring in young puppies that they can form a lasting, loving bond with, the same as you have with your dog and I with mine

. Now they can bypass the UK breeders (which may hit their pockets, and hopefully some will stop tampering with the breed when it is no longer financially profitable - fingers crossed!) as long as they can convince a European breeder that they have the correct intentions for the puppy and breed in general, and that they will not breed until the UK Kennel Club enters the 21 century and joins the AKC and the FCI in recognising the breed.

Lets all pull together here and stop slinging mud to see where it sticks. It is essential if the breed is to have a future in the UK.

hedeon · 11-09-2011, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

You know how horrible it was to have your baby in quarantine

. These new rules make it possible for people to bring in young puppies that they can form a lasting, loving bond with, the same as you have with your dog and I with mine

. Now they can bypass the UK breeders (which may hit their pockets, and hopefully some will stop tampering with the breed when it is no longer financially profitable - fingers crossed!) as long as they can convince a European breeder that they have the correct intentions for the puppy and breed in general, and that they will not breed until the UK Kennel Club enters the 21 century and joins the AKC and the FCI in recognising the breed.

LIKE IT!
This is exactly what I hope for.
I even contacted KC to find out what is needed to get CSV recognized, but it looks more complicated and much more people have to be involved.

Shadowlands · 11-09-2011, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by hedeon

LIKE IT!
This is exactly what I hope for.
I even contacted KC to find out what is needed to get CSV recognized, but it looks more complicated and much more people have to be involved.

Marcy from Galomy Oak has achieved it in the States, so don't give up hope. Well done you for contacting them and asking, now we just have to find you some support and you'll all be on your way to getting the breed recognised

Nebulosa · 11-09-2011, 16:58

Well, in the end we completely changed the topic from new importing rules in UK to UK breeding, old UK breeders and some histories related, I will work on it soon.

But I want to let clear here somethings, the breed in UK had a wrong start, unfortunatelly real CzW lovers trusted in the wrong person at UK, and after years thinking that was all right the truth starts to pop out, we had several fights and several unreplied questions.

In every country we can meet good and bad breeders and people, we only were unlucky enough to have as our first contact an bad exemple in UK, it's quite common to happen in CzW breed, it was the same in several countries and it didn't prevented people interested in move on to work and change the situation of the breed in their countries.

Im sure that if you want to change the situation of the breed in your country, and is willing to do it in way to help the breed with a really serious work, several people will be happy in help you in all possibles ways, after all what most lack in all breeds are serious breeders.

Tazer · 11-09-2011, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyfeet

Are you now encouraging tupacs to breed her cross in the U.K. forgive me but I was sure you was against this?..why encourage breeding why not just encourage more understanding of the breed and instead of slapping cross owners on the back for their opinions,good work and so called protection of the breed {however how you can say they protect the breed when they have bought a crossed dog from the very breeders you all dislike is beyond me} this forum seems very much if your in our gang your ok even if you by buying a crossbreeded dog you are promoting this further each time you walk it and tell people about your dog..I think that shadowlands is correct I would hope that people feel that from Jan 2012 they can buy a puppy,develop an understanding of the breed and develop a bond with a life long companion and not just see the breed as a money making adventure!!! I moved to the uk for work with my family pet! I had to leave her in quarrentine and its was the most horrible thing ever to do...she isnt a status symbol,she isnt a breeding dog she is loved adored and I am constantly learning from her. education and promotion of this breed is most needed here in the UK but remember that all UK owners are not all breeders! dont intend to do so ! most of us just want to promote the breed and develop our understanding of them along side you all...and not as some of your forum members are doing holding court with their inuits in wolfdog clothing!!....

1. Tassle is the only one who has mentioned owning a csv cross here and I didn't mention her at all.

2. Tupacs2leg's attitude towards the breed here, for example wanting them to be bred pure and to be established as a breed in their own right, was what I was refering to with the remark I made. If you had bothered to stop and think that the comment had more meaning than the one you assigned to it, you would've understood that.

3. She knows what I think of her boys breeder infact, there're probably few people who've got me on the subject who don't understand what I think of it.

4. I absolutely agree with you ref education and understanding of the breed being most needed here and yes, not all owners want to breed thankfully. Its just most unfortunate that the one's who do, seem to want to breed them with what evers easiest to get hold of.

Taz

Tazer · 11-09-2011, 18:03

I saw an ad earlier today. The sire was a pure csv apparently, the dam was a csv x northern inuit.

Males were 750 quid
The female was...1000 quid.

Absolute madness.

Taz

Tassle · 11-09-2011, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyfeet

I was referring to Tassle comment

What on earth has my comment about my crossbreed got to do with Tupacs dog???

hedeon · 11-09-2011, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Marcy from Galomy Oak has achieved it in the States, so don't give up hope. Well done you for contacting them and asking, now we just have to find you some support and you'll all be on your way to getting the breed recognised

That was nothing really difficult abut it. But, not so fast. I am a new comer to the breed, I don't even own a CSV yet. I have seen CSV in real time just two weeks ago... So I can't really call myself a beginner. Maybe in the future when I will have my dog, get know breed enough, dogs, and their owners... I can quote initial requirements from KC reply for CSV recognition.

Quote:

The Committee will consider an application for recognition of a breed once there are specimens of it resident in the UK and the dog(s) are imported from a country either having a Kennel Club with which there is a reciprocal agreement or which has full membership of the F.C.I. or where there is a Breed Club maintaining a Stud Book and acceptable to the Kennel Club. Application for recognition and subsequent registration should be made in the first instance to the Breed Standards and Stud Book Sub-Committee. In general, an application should consist of:

Names & addresses of UK owners/importers
Total number of dogs of the breed in the UK
[ideally at least 20, preferably unrelated]
Copies of pedigrees of UK dogs – at least 3 generations
Proposed breeding plan and indication of available gene pool
Indication of temperament and characteristics
Recognition status in the country of origin
Details of registration body in country of origin
Indication of group classification
If the breed has been crossbred, when the registry closed
Brief history of the breed in its country of origin & photographs
Functionality of breed and how widely it is used
Breed Standard from country of origin
Breed Registration statistics in country of origin [ideally a consistent minimum of 50 per year]; and other countries
Show entry statistics in country of origin and at international level
[ideally a minimum of 35 individually exhibited at a single competitive event]
Details of any inherited conditions prevalent in the breed
For Working Breeds – details of activities. Video footage [if available]

[Please note that it is the individual responsibility of those applying for breed recognition to ensure due compliance with all statutory and regulatory requirements, including requisite licences, permissions and consents as are laid down by the general law, with regard to the keeping, breeding and selling of any particular breed. Recognition of the breed by the Kennel Club will not denote that any of the above has been satisfied or complied with.]

Recognition of a breed allows registration on the Imported Breeds Register, although the breed would not be eligible for exhibition until such time as an Interim Breed Standard is published. This is not considered at the same time as recognition, as it is the Kennel Club’s policy to allow the breed to develop slowly before show participation is permitted. Importers of new breeds are encouraged to form a provisional breed club, registration of which can be applied for once a certain nucleus of the breed has been established in the UK.

The Kennel Club may, in its absolute discretion, refuse to recognise any proposed breed.

Tazer · 11-09-2011, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassle

What on earth has my comment about my crossbreed got to do with Tupacs dog???

And what has it got to do with my post, which was what he was responding too.

Taz

Tassle · 11-09-2011, 23:07

I was led to believe that there were a group of people who had organised and got the paperwork sorted to submit to the KC - however - I was told this by someone who, after swearing she was not intending to cross-breed her CsV, went ahead and did just that! So I doubt the validity of what she says now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazer

And what has it got to do with my post, which was what he was responding too.

Taz

Possibly the saying 'Clutching at Straws' is applicable in this case.

11-09-2011, 13:23	#43
Tazer Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 77	Why if they loved the breed so much and went through all that effort fighting to have them removed from the DWAL, would they then cross them with wolves etc? What possible good could/has it had for the csv breed, both here in the uk and as a whole? Or, is it just a case of supply and demand? Oh and has it occured to you that perhaps the reason why other people haven't imported already, is because they might want a puppy, as opposed to a juvinile or adult. P.s. Tupac's owner is the kind of person I want to see breeding in this country, there might be some hope for the breed here then. As it stands, all I see now is a mess, that needs cleaning up. Taz __________________ Never argue with idiots. they drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

11-09-2011, 14:55	#46
tupacs2legs rookie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: london Posts: 320	So we agree on one thing. 'Happyfeet' about encouraging understanding of the breed. ....Oh so now my Tupac is a cross is he...how convinient And where have I ever said I would breed him? Last edited by tupacs2legs; 11-09-2011 at 14:59.

11-09-2011, 16:58	#54
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Well, in the end we completely changed the topic from new importing rules in UK to UK breeding, old UK breeders and some histories related, I will work on it soon. But I want to let clear here somethings, the breed in UK had a wrong start, unfortunatelly real CzW lovers trusted in the wrong person at UK, and after years thinking that was all right the truth starts to pop out, we had several fights and several unreplied questions. In every country we can meet good and bad breeders and people, we only were unlucky enough to have as our first contact an bad exemple in UK, it's quite common to happen in CzW breed, it was the same in several countries and it didn't prevented people interested in move on to work and change the situation of the breed in their countries. Im sure that if you want to change the situation of the breed in your country, and is willing to do it in way to help the breed with a really serious work, several people will be happy in help you in all possibles ways, after all what most lack in all breeds are serious breeders. __________________

11-09-2011, 18:03	#56
Tazer Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 77	I saw an ad earlier today. The sire was a pure csv apparently, the dam was a csv x northern inuit. Males were 750 quid The female was...1000 quid. Absolute madness. Taz __________________ Never argue with idiots. they drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

11-09-2011, 13:32	#44
Shadowlands Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vidin Posts: 391	You're on the same wavelength as I am, Tazer

11-09-2011, 15:06	#47
tupacs2legs rookie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: london Posts: 320	I find it very sad and cannot understand why fellow csv lovers are attacking me? For what? For loving the breed and loving my dog?surely we should unite?

11-09-2011, 15:56	#51
Shadowlands Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vidin Posts: 391	Tupac is not a MUTT - only his mother and himself are non-FCI and this is simply because the UK Kennel Club do not yet recognise the breed; as soon as they do, he will be registered - he is a CsV, pure and simple. We should try to see round the cross breeders in the UK and recognise that there are some (albeit only a few) real CsV's born in the country. At no point has Tupac's owner said she will breed (in fact has expressly told me she does not wish to), so please get your facts straight before launching an attack. You know how horrible it was to have your baby in quarantine . These new rules make it possible for people to bring in young puppies that they can form a lasting, loving bond with, the same as you have with your dog and I with mine . Now they can bypass the UK breeders (which may hit their pockets, and hopefully some will stop tampering with the breed when it is no longer financially profitable - fingers crossed!) as long as they can convince a European breeder that they have the correct intentions for the puppy and breed in general, and that they will not breed until the UK Kennel Club enters the 21 century and joins the AKC and the FCI in recognising the breed. Lets all pull together here and stop slinging mud to see where it sticks. It is essential if the breed is to have a future in the UK.