Is the Czechoslovakian wolfdog breed for me?

[Rona]

Originally Posted by jefta

Rona, opinion that Lorka is first no shy csv come also to me even that I live 300-400 km from you and we spend time with difrent type od doglovers

I understand this is a joke? I may assure you that out of 11 CSVs that live in or close to Krakow, which I occasionally meet on various occassions including trainings!, one is (or rather used to be) a bit shy, and one is very shy. It's a beautiful dog and very much loved by his "pack", but the owner hardly socialized him, so the dog's shyness hasn't surprised anybody.

Originally Posted by jefta

my beagle hate csv but she loves going on csv meetings-there is so much food which they dont want to eat

I'm afraid I don't follow... what do you find strange or unusual with CSVs not eating more than they need?

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Rona

I'm afraid I don't follow... what do you find strange or unusual with CSVs not eating more than they need?

Well, I would find that highly unusual, but from the completely opposite experience. Both my wolfdogs ate as much as was available. Both are/were food thieves. All my pups (the healthy ones) would almost inhale their food just to be sure that they don't miss any. I know only few wolfdogs that would not eat much and most of them would start eating as soon as in company of other wolfdogs as they knew that nothing would be left if they hesitated.

The only wolfdogs I know that are not eating and are not persuaded by competition are dwarfs, and there it is part of their disease... For some young ones it may be a distraction from much more interesting things like chewing and fighting/playing.

I would say that high pray/food drive is a typical trait in wolfdogs. But you have to know how to utilize it.

The no fear of tiny places and dark and whatever is more difficult - you need to pick the right pup (inquisitive etc.) and then you need to socialize it a lot and make a good partnership and then you need to be lucky so that it does not have a bad experience... And because it is very active you need to bring it up properly, teach it to behave and obey. But than you'll have a wolfdog that is not afraid and trusts you enough that it would endure such unpleasant things.

I'd say wolfdogs are not for people who take the dog as a means to achieve something. If you want to get to a top of a big mountain, and you take a wolfdog, you may reach the top and see the beautiful sight, but you may also get to the top of the tree line and see that there is just too much fog and bad weather, and you just cannot go further, but you still have a great companion with you. So wolfdog is a way, and if that is what is important for you, go and get one. If the goal is more important, then wolfdog is not for you. You can take a wolfdog on a lift with you, but the wolfdog will not be the lift to the top.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by jefta

my beagle hate csv but she loves going on csv meetings-there is so much food which they dont want to eat

I admit that I have a hard time finding training treats for Ghost - he is not interested.. Mostly because, he is spoilt on his regular raw food. Things like 'doggy treats' don't interest him more than his regular dinner (which is not convenient to train with)...

Finally, I found the answer - I stopped buying ready made 'dog treats' and simply started to dry my own meats.....

[jefta]

Sashia I will be very happy for same movie with csv working on prey drive.


Rona I dont see nothing unusual but I see problem with training/motivation.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by saschia

I know only few wolfdogs that would not eat much and most of them would start eating as soon as in company of other wolfdogs as they knew that nothing would be left if they hesitated. (...) I would say that high pray/food drive is a typical trait in wolfdogs. But you have to know how to utilize it.

Tina always ate all she was given, but Lorka leaves food when she's not hungry. When I want her to perform well at dog school she gets ... late dinner.

Originally Posted by saschia

I'd say wolfdogs are not for people who take the dog as a means to achieve something. If you want to get to a top of a big mountain, and you take a wolfdog, you may reach the top and see the beautiful sight, but you may also get to the top of the tree line and see that there is just too much fog and bad weather, and you just cannot go further, but you still have a great companion with you. So wolfdog is a way, and if that is what is important for you, go and get one. If the goal is more important, then wolfdog is not for you. You can take a wolfdog on a lift with you, but the wolfdog will not be the lift to the top.

Very wise words, Sashia. I agree 100%.

The most important thing when getting a wolfdog is to keep patient and humble. I really appreciate the approach of our present trainer. She says that teaching the owner how to work on the good relationship with a dog is far more important than training a dog for exams. If the relationship is correct, the exams (whatever one understands under this term) will be easy.

Finally, I found the answer - I stopped buying ready made 'dog treats' and simply started to dry my own meats.....

Jing, I'll send you a recipe for training treats I got from Margo. They work like magic

[Tarlanciel]

Originally Posted by Rona

Jing, I'll send you a recipe for training treats I got from Margo. They work like magic

Can i get it too?

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Rona

Jing, I'll send you a recipe for training treats I got from Margo. They work like magic

Thanks! Look forward to it!!

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by jefta

just few csv works in reserching and traking. If as guarding dog you understand dog which is barking by gate but run away from figurant-yes they are good guarding dogs... I know much dogs this expiriend owners and my opinion about them is diffrent then owners opinion. I was thinking about it when I wrote that "internet true" is difrent than reality

Sorry, but it's simply not truth about the BREED itself, it's your own experience and of most of people who never depended on a real guarding dog.
If my dogs had run away of bandits I would be simply not alive right now.
My dogs would bark one or two times in a very different and low way if they want to warn me about something different that's happening, but when they need to enter in action they are completely silence, the most interesting thing is that at pack they work in a very organized and planned way.

Originally Posted by Jefta

Next problem is motivation-low prey drive and i dont know the word-ofen they dont like eat too much.

Or your wolfdog have a very atypical character or you did something wrong in its developement.
Wolfdogs have a HUGE prey-drive, much more than common working breeds, the little difference is that they are mature and often too inteligent of what we expect a dog to be, these features turn almost impossible for you to convert prey to play, and that's the point which makes harder to train a wolfdog.

About "dont eat too much", it's very particular of each dog, but if you mean that by "they dont accept food as trait" then perhaps you havent found yet the right trait.

By my experience, all my dogs are very trainable with a piece of cheese.

Originally Posted by IAMLisaP

The dog needs have no fear of small spaces, dark areas, obstacles etc. and of course high pray/ball drive. Does this sound like a wolfdog?

It will all depends on the socialization work that the breeder and principally you will do with the pup.
if you socialize him with all that in a right way he will have no fear at all, but if you fail you will have a harder work to took away this "fear".
Play drive not, if I play a ball to my dogs they will only stand looking at me with a face that could be translate as "what's the point of it? if you wanna it back go and catch it by yourself, im not your slave", well and seems most of CsV are like that.

[Fede86]

Originally Posted by saschia

The only wolfdogs I know that are not eating and are not persuaded by competition are dwarfs, and there it is part of their disease...

Well, mine has little interest in food. He doesn't have competition since I don't have other dogs, but he only has the bowl for 15 minutes top, and if he doesn't eat he will see the bowl again the next day, with half its habitual content. And if he does not eat again he will see it the day after, with a quarter of its content, and so on. I also feed him only kibbles (I only use meat during training) an I don’t add anything to make it more tasty if he refuses the food in the bowl, and he knows it. But he often eats just enough to satisfy his hunger and leave the rest, or he won't eat at all if he is not hungry. He’s not even particularly interested in the meat I use during training sessions. Sometimes he accept it, other times he munches on it slowly, somewhat reluctantly, sometimes he just plainly refuses it and spits it out. And I can assure he is pretty healthy, he has always been like that with food.

On the contrary he has a high prey drive on balls and tugs, but I worked a lot on him to get him interested in playing with them since he was a pup. So I often use toys to reward him during training.

[saschia]

jefta, i don't have any videos so no help from me. But my first wolfdog was the first wolfdog ever to do agility (in 1993-4), and she was working purely for treats.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Fede86

Sometimes he accept it, other times he munches on it slowly, somewhat reluctantly, sometimes he just plainly refuses it and spits it out. And I can assure he is pretty healthy, he has always been like that with food.

So yours is an exceprion maybe? But I think that if he got competition, and food he likes, and maybe a lot of excercise he would eat differently. For example, i went hiking with a group of wolfdogs, one of them was a female that did not want to eat normally. But when she was on hikes with us, she ate quite well, especially after the first meal, which the other wolfdogs stole pretty soon (we let them to teach her). But when she returned home she stopped eating again. But when her owners moved to a house, she started to eat much better and even got a bit fat... So she was like Lorka maybe, not eating more than necessary.

Frei was raised on barf, so she does not like granules too much. So I used it when she had false pregnancy - she was ravenous, but the granules she did not like too much, and when I switched for low-calories granules instead of barf she stopped eating so much and was able to lose the weight soon without much more exercise.

But still, if I hold a piece of raw meat, she will try to anticipate my commands, just to get the treat as soon as possible. And if I have a peace of venison, her face tells "Please tell me to do something, so i can get the treat!"

But I am quite off topic now i think.

[IAmLisaP]

Originally Posted by Fede86

Well, mine has little interest in food. He doesn't have competition since I don't have other dogs, but he only has the bowl for 15 minutes top, and if he doesn't eat he will see the bowl again the next day, with half its habitual content. And if he does not eat again he will see it the day after, with a quarter of its content, and so on. I also feed him only kibbles (I only use meat during training) an I don’t add anything to make it more tasty if he refuses the food in the bowl, and he knows it. But he often eats just enough to satisfy his hunger and leave the rest, or he won't eat at all if he is not hungry. He’s not even particularly interested in the meat I use during training sessions. Sometimes he accept it, other times he munches on it slowly, somewhat reluctantly, sometimes he just plainly refuses it and spits it out. And I can assure he is pretty healthy, he has always been like that with food.

On the contrary he has a high prey drive on balls and tugs, but I worked a lot on him to get him interested in playing with them since he was a pup. So I often use toys to reward him during training.

I believe that if a dog has the potential for a high pray/ball drive that you can develop it! My mom has border collie mix that will chase and kill squirrels but doesn't care about toys. I feel that if i had known about dog training when we got her, I could of got her to play with toys. I probably still could but she is 8 years old and it doesn't seem important.

[Tassle]

It seems to me this thread has thrown up an interesting cross section
You May get a CSV who is Ball/toy driven
You May get one that is Food driven
You May get one who is Shy
You may get one going to work


...or you may not

I (possibly becasue I am a trainer) see all dogs as trainable, however with some breeds (or even individuals) you have to think outside the box. Finding your dogs 'on' switch is always the first (and sometimes most challenging) part of any training (finding an 'off' switch is another!!).
So I guess it comes down to the kind of trainer you are, how much of a challenge are you up for and how much are you willing to change your training ideas to suit the dog? as opposed to trying to change the dog to suit your ideas?

(this is my overall impression from this thread - so far )

[IAmLisaP]

Originally Posted by Tassle

It seems to me this thread has thrown up an interesting cross section
You May get a CSV who is Ball/toy driven
You May get one that is Food driven
You May get one who is Shy
You may get one going to work


...or you may not

I (possibly becasue I am a trainer) see all dogs as trainable, however with some breeds (or even individuals) you have to think outside the box. Finding your dogs 'on' switch is always the first (and sometimes most challenging) part of any training (finding an 'off' switch is another!!).
So I guess it comes down to the kind of trainer you are, how much of a challenge are you up for and how much are you willing to change your training ideas to suit the dog? as opposed to trying to change the dog to suit your ideas?

(this is my overall impression from this thread - so far )

Hahaha well as a trainer I am not set in one way of doing it. I feel that every dog is different and am open to all ideas and different way of training.
I am up for anything. The only thing that I'm not ready for training wise is a dog that is people aggressive. I was bit on the face as a child so I am nervous around super aggressive dogs (dogs properly trained in protection work are NOT aggressive, just for people who don't know ). I will get over that at some point!

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by IAmLisaP

I believe that if a dog has the potential for a high pray/ball drive that you can develop it! My mom has border collie mix that will chase and kill squirrels but doesn't care about toys. I feel that if i had known about dog training when we got her, I could of got her to play with toys. I probably still could but she is 8 years old and it doesn't seem important.

but the same with 'hunting' is the same as the ball problem ime.. my wolfdog will only hunt 'seriously' if he thinks he will get it,and with as less energy used as possible.

i find i have to use a mixture of treats and toys depending on what we are trying to achieve.(although food is his primary motive lol)

he is loving agility!

eta...and there is no way my csv would run away from 'intruders'

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by IAmLisaP

Hahaha well as a trainer I am not set in one way of doing it. I feel that every dog is different and am open to all ideas and different way of training.
I am up for anything. The only thing that I'm not ready for training wise is a dog that is people aggressive. I was bit on the face as a child so I am nervous around super aggressive dogs (dogs properly trained in protection work are NOT aggressive, just for people who don't know ). I will get over that at some point!

you cannot guarantee that with any dog let alone a csv

[IAmLisaP]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

you cannot guarantee that with any dog let alone a csv

I'm talking about an obvious people aggressive dogs. Like previous offenders. Dogs that have already attacked and injured people. If some one comes up to me with a fear aggressive dog I can deal with that, these ones don't "look" for fights(that have seen).

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by IAmLisaP

I'm talking about an obvious people aggressive dogs. Like previous offenders. Dogs that have already attacked and injured people. If some one comes up to me with a fear aggressive dog I can deal with that, these ones don't "look" for fights(that have seen).

Do you mean taking on an older dog? or a puppy with predisposed genetic traits?

[IAmLisaP]

Originally Posted by Tassle

Do you mean taking on an older dog? or a puppy with predisposed genetic traits?

Haha no I thought we were talking about dog training in general. I would want to get a wolfdog puppy to start with.

[Fede86]

Originally Posted by saschia

So yours is an exceprion maybe? But I think that if he got competition, and food he likes, and maybe a lot of excercise he would eat differently.

Yes he's probably an exception. I tried many different food, from cheese to raw meat of various kinds, to fish (which is the food he prefers) but when he is particularly concentrated on something or engaged in some intense activity he would refuse any food, he just brushes it off. Exercise is something he does daily, several hours a day, I don't think that's the problem. But yes, when we are with other dogs he does eat a lot more.

Anyway, in the end I find it difficult and unproductive to use food as a reward during training with him.