Géméhtouès des Loups de l'Ostrevent dite Edora - Page 3

chloé · 27-05-2011, 14:48

alors explique moi la différence entre un masque de saarloos et de tcheque

koomak · 27-05-2011, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by chloé

Ok celui en photo surement un croisement ou un loupé genetique mais il rentre pas vraiment dans le standad en meme temps. Par contre les chiots de sophie moi je vois du clt (certes tres typé mais du clt)alors explique moi avec ton oeil d'expert (et je veux des details sur la morpho) en quoi ce ne sont pas des clt pour moi ils rentrent dans le standard (apres je suis qu'une amatrice)

une excellente amatrice Chloé! !!! <3<3<3

koomak · 27-05-2011, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruna

tu sais ke je suis vraiment impatiente, lol !!!

j'adore cette photo!!!

wouah kelle allure !!

splendide !!

merciiiiiiiiiii :-)

martiou07 · 27-05-2011, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by koomak

franchement tu mélanges tout!

ah non Sophie, moi je fais ça bien justement, pas de naissance de MIX chez moi

djésia · 27-05-2011, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by chloé

alors explique moi la différence entre un masque de saarloos et de tcheque

http://photomaniak.com/upload/out.php/i221592_comparaison2.pdf

sans me mêler de cette polémique j'avais trouvé ça il y a quelques temps je trouve ça super bien fait si ça intéresse les novices comme moi pour apprendre à différencier les 2 'fin surtout à comprendre les différences attendues du standard entre un clt et un cls

koomak · 27-05-2011, 14:59

MARTIAL, Tu vas me trouver méchante, mais tas pas fait fort cette année en portee :-(
quelle leçon tu peux donner!

Graal n a rien dun sarloos ET GUNNER non plus!

si encore tu parlais de loup! mais pour parler de sarloos je me repete ty connais rien de rien! !!!!!!!!!

DIAMOND un Sarloos! !!!!comment peux tu être aussi nul?

hekate · 27-05-2011, 15:01

Martial tu peux m'expliquer la différence de masque entre ces deux chiens????

chloé · 27-05-2011, 15:02

merci djesia pour ton lien interessant, par contre ils mettent une taille limite pour le tcheque alors que dans le standard officiel y en a pas par contre sur le saarloos il y en a une

martiou07 · 27-05-2011, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chloé

alors explique moi la différence entre un masque de saarloos et de tcheque

va faire un tour sur facebook Chloé, tu y verras des défauts de pigmentation sur les truffes de ces chiots que personne n'a encore eu dans une portée de CLTS ..... résultat de la sélection peut etre ......

néanmoins deja retrouvé chez le saarloos .... bizarre....

je n'ai plus le nom du chiot en tête, mais il y a l'un des chiots de cette portée avec un masque très haut, masque lunette comme Sophie appelle ça

Oui il est possible de fixer un type, cependant il ne faut pas croire qu'un éleveur en est capable sur deux générations (référence à Demoniak)

maintenant libre à vous de penser ce que vous voulez .....

Je ne reste pas j'attends Fab accompagné de Furcas et Kazakh

, des photos de chien loup tchécoslovaque à venir

Bon weekend à tous

chloé · 27-05-2011, 15:06

qu'est ce que tu appelle defauts de pigmentation sur la truff, un petit bout rose, si c'est ça alors kayack est pas un vrai clt non plus car petit il avait un bout de truff rose

martiou07 · 27-05-2011, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by koomak

MARTIAL, Tu vas me trouver méchante, mais tas pas fait fort cette année en portee :-(
quelle leçon tu peux donner!

va au bout de tes pensées Sophie

Merci, oui, j'ai produit une portée de CLT avec un male issus d'une lignée très peu présenté en France, donc eventuellement utile pour le cheptel...

peut etre plus intelligent que de produire du MIX ou de travailler sur les mêmes lignées que tous , non ??

J'oubliais , cette portée c'est un accident

yen a eu un paquet des accidents ces dernières années

vero et sa meute · 27-05-2011, 15:11

Djésia, ton lien est excellent merci de ce partage il est collé en lien pour mémoire......

Donc si je regarde ce lien que tu as fait d'après ma maigre expérience sur la connaissance du tchèque et (très novice surtout sur le sarloos

) je trouve perso que la chienne de christophe a un masque de tchèque ou je dois être myope pas possible

Au fait Sophie, pour info, ses yeux s'éclaircissent ca y est ca commence donc

allez parce que j'adore cette photo perso (elle était encore chez sophie)

======> sophie oui je sais mais bon je te pique tes photos sur fb =====> je te taquinne là

Pour ma part perso, moi elle est avec nous elle est très bien dans ses baskettes sa s'entend avec tout le monde, marche nickel en laisse donc tant que tout va bien comme l'a dit plus loin je crois frabrice (c'est de ce faire plaisir)!!!!!!

koomak · 27-05-2011, 15:24

Martial tu disjonctes ou quoi !!!!!!!!!!!!!! mes chiots etaient hyper pigmentés a la naissance !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ils etaient photographiés avec un Flash !! quest ce que tuu peux etre nul de chez nul !!!

koomak · 27-05-2011, 15:25

vero, elle est ou sa truffe rose

admin · 27-05-2011, 15:48

Several important points - please be so kind and translate it into French:

Wrong information:
We add to the database the data sent to us by the owners, breeders, which we get from show catalogue and official registries. Because of it it is no wonder that there are some mistakes. If you found one please contact me ([email protected]) and I will fix it while the next update of the dabase.

Photos
All photos are the property of the person who took it and this person can make with them what she/he wants. I'm receiving really many photos every day which are later added as "Admin". I do not check who took it as I go from the point of view that people respect the copyrights. So if you found photos taken by you and you want to be listed as author contact me. If you found photo which you took and you want to remove it - contact me. Remember: I will not remove photos of your dogs which were taken by someone else - because you are not the "owner" of the photo (even if you are the owner of the dogs on the photo).

"My information if missing" & "my photo was not changed" stories
In many cases people complain but NEVER send me any email. I'm not able to read in your brains. At the moment all changes were made - and all main photos were changed. If your change was not made it makes only that I didn't received your email or.. you forgot to write me about it.

Remove my dog from the database
The information about your dog is NOT your "property" but property of the breed. Every dog which has the pedigree as "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" or is officially mentioned as "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" will be listed in the database. What is your property is you personal data: address, email address, a.s.o. If you want to have your data removed please contact me and I will make the changed after the next update.

vero et sa meute · 27-05-2011, 15:49

bon au pire si c'est pas un tchèque Edora, j'ai ce modèle là qui devrait passer en coucours

noter la superbe statique ca commence fort

ok là je sorsssssssssssssssss

voiceofwolf33 · 27-05-2011, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by vero et sa meute

bon au pire si c'est pas un tchèque Edora, j'ai ce modèle là qui devrait passer en coucours

noter la superbe statique ca commence fort

ok là je sorsssssssssssssssss

hihi

J'adore!!!!!! Bien joué!!!!

C'est un bébé de ta renarde??

admin · 27-05-2011, 15:57

Mixes

First remember:
A Czechoslovakian Wolfdog can be called ONLY a dog which comes from the dogs registered during the founding of the Czechoslovakian Breed Club in 1982 - dog which ALL ancestors were registered by the CsW Club.
It means: all other crosses (with Malamute, Saarloos, Wolf and American Wolf), all dogs found "in the forest", all dogs with "empty" pedigrees ARE NOT Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. The are Wolfdogs but do not belong to the breed registered by FCI - even if because of any reason they get the pedigrees.

At the moment there is first DNA test results which proved that a French dog coming from a famous French kennel is a Saaarloos-CzW mix. It is 100% sure. All dog from this line are already marked as "Saarloos_MIX".

There are 100% known mixes in Italy - offisprings of white tundra wolf frossed with Malamute-GSD-alike_mix and later with CsW. The dogs wrere removed from Czech Republic and banned by the Czech Club - because of it they were smuggled to Italy and a bred there by some dishonest breeders. All the dogs are marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIX"

The offsprings of the Finish mixes with the Wolf smuggled from Czech Republic are marked as (!!!_MIX_!!!).

We have already information from a very serious (official) source which confirmed the doubts about other mixes among the French Wolfdogs. At the moment there are no official steps done against the breeders and owner are the whole thing is serious - in European Union it is forbidden to keep illegal wolf mixes F1-F4. Especially that the wolf is an protected specie. Every animal like this needs CITES card - in other case the animal will be taken away from the owner. In some countries keeping wolf crosses are illegal even with such card.
You can be angry about Wolfdog.org but believe me - many people are trying to solve the problem in peace. First - because if we will do it official it can damage the breed and some countries can forbid breeding CsW even if the there are only 3-lines of illegal crosses. Second - if we make it official the dog will be taken away from the owners and almost for sure they will be put down. Also the owners will have really serious problems with the law.
Because of it will try to solve the whole story "between" us - without asking for help of the official departments responsible for such cases.

Doz is a wolf cross coming from Finland. It was already confirmed by the people from Czech Republic. I can not publish you more info but you all have the proofs in the front of you eyes: you all a wolfdog owners and you know that the basic characteristic of Wolfdogs is that puppies (offsprings) have a lot similarities with the parents, grand parents, grand-grandparents, a.s.o. Some dogs (which are crosses) do not apply it - they look totally different.

Here is the photo of the mother of Doz which come from a genetic VERY strong line of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs:

Do you see ANY similarity between her and her "daughter":

or other puppies from this line?

Of course there are none. Nothing is similar - the offspring look like a different breed. Do you really do not see it? Do you really believe in the lie about "perfect work of French breeders"?

As I understand you wrote some angry words - but it is as I wrote you: the Saarloos crosses from France are already DNA proven. The wolf crosses are confirmed by very serious cynologist from France and from Czech Republic.
What wonder me is: you are criticizing Wolfdog.org for making it public but I do not see any breeders which criticize the mentioned breeders for producing puppies with false pedigrees. Is it OK for you? Cheating is allowed? Do you see nothing wrong on it?

Anyway - there are no official steps done till now. You have the possibility and time to stop it. And remember - in Czech Republic there was done an official sience work done on the Prague University which tested genetic of Saarloos, Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and German Shepherd Dogs. It is already possible to check if an animal is a purebreed CsW or if it is a cross with an other breed. Even if there are 10 or 20 generations gone from the false mating.
If you will not stop it now and the mixes will spread among the French population it can come the time when the DNA test will be done and there will be proofs that one or two of the French line is a Malamute-American Wolf-CsW mix (as we can observe it now) and it will not affect 20-30 dogs like today but it can cause that the whole French pupulation will be marked as "not purebreed" wolfdogs (or simple said "!!!MIXES!!!"). It is only your choice what you will make about it. We will collect the information about all French mixes. One day the after the DNA test all the LINES will be marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIXES" (what they areally are).

vero et sa meute · 27-05-2011, 16:01

Non Voice, c'est un sauvetage encore une fois de plus 3 bébés a la maison

vero et sa meute · 27-05-2011, 16:02

c'est sympa je parle pas un mot anglais

27-05-2011, 14:59	#46
koomak ? Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Valenciennes (59) Posts: 1,160	MARTIAL, Tu vas me trouver méchante, mais tas pas fait fort cette année en portee :-( quelle leçon tu peux donner! Graal n a rien dun sarloos ET GUNNER non plus! si encore tu parlais de loup! mais pour parler de sarloos je me repete ty connais rien de rien! !!!!!!!!! DIAMOND un Sarloos! !!!!comment peux tu être aussi nul? __________________ AMITIES DE KOUMAK, DEMONIAK DIAMOND, DREAM SHAWAK, DÔZ, GRAAL, APACHE, PARYSSE ET SOPHIE

27-05-2011, 15:01	#47
hekate Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Marseille Posts: 601	Martial tu peux m'expliquer la différence de masque entre ces deux chiens???? __________________ http://www.wix.com/chienloup/eriador http://darwenclt.wordpress.com/ http://chienloupeuropeen.forumactif.com/

27-05-2011, 15:06	#50
chloé Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: lyon Posts: 405	qu'est ce que tu appelle defauts de pigmentation sur la truff, un petit bout rose, si c'est ça alors kayack est pas un vrai clt non plus car petit il avait un bout de truff rose Last edited by chloé; 27-05-2011 at 15:09.

27-05-2011, 15:11	#52
vero et sa meute Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sologne Posts: 375	Djésia, ton lien est excellent merci de ce partage il est collé en lien pour mémoire...... Donc si je regarde ce lien que tu as fait d'après ma maigre expérience sur la connaissance du tchèque et (très novice surtout sur le sarloos) je trouve perso que la chienne de christophe a un masque de tchèque ou je dois être myope pas possible Au fait Sophie, pour info, ses yeux s'éclaircissent ca y est ca commence donc allez parce que j'adore cette photo perso (elle était encore chez sophie) ======> sophie oui je sais mais bon je te pique tes photos sur fb =====> je te taquinne là Pour ma part perso, moi elle est avec nous elle est très bien dans ses baskettes sa s'entend avec tout le monde, marche nickel en laisse donc tant que tout va bien comme l'a dit plus loin je crois frabrice (c'est de ce faire plaisir)!!!!!! __________________ le jour ou le loup entrera dans chaque foyer, que l'homme n'en aura plus peur, qu'il le respectera comme son egal et non comme un rival, l'humanité comprendra la nature et la protegera ....."

27-05-2011, 15:24	#53
koomak ? Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Valenciennes (59) Posts: 1,160	Martial tu disjonctes ou quoi !!!!!!!!!!!!!! mes chiots etaient hyper pigmentés a la naissance !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ils etaient photographiés avec un Flash !! quest ce que tuu peux etre nul de chez nul !!! __________________ AMITIES DE KOUMAK, DEMONIAK DIAMOND, DREAM SHAWAK, DÔZ, GRAAL, APACHE, PARYSSE ET SOPHIE

27-05-2011, 14:48	#41
chloé Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: lyon Posts: 405	alors explique moi la différence entre un masque de saarloos et de tcheque

27-05-2011, 15:02	#48
chloé Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: lyon Posts: 405	merci djesia pour ton lien interessant, par contre ils mettent une taille limite pour le tcheque alors que dans le standard officiel y en a pas par contre sur le saarloos il y en a une

27-05-2011, 15:25	#54
koomak ? Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Valenciennes (59) Posts: 1,160	vero, elle est ou sa truffe rose __________________ AMITIES DE KOUMAK, DEMONIAK DIAMOND, DREAM SHAWAK, DÔZ, GRAAL, APACHE, PARYSSE ET SOPHIE

27-05-2011, 15:48	#55
admin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 583	Several important points - please be so kind and translate it into French: Wrong information: We add to the database the data sent to us by the owners, breeders, which we get from show catalogue and official registries. Because of it it is no wonder that there are some mistakes. If you found one please contact me ([email protected]) and I will fix it while the next update of the dabase. Photos All photos are the property of the person who took it and this person can make with them what she/he wants. I'm receiving really many photos every day which are later added as "Admin". I do not check who took it as I go from the point of view that people respect the copyrights. So if you found photos taken by you and you want to be listed as author contact me. If you found photo which you took and you want to remove it - contact me. Remember: I will not remove photos of your dogs which were taken by someone else - because you are not the "owner" of the photo (even if you are the owner of the dogs on the photo). "My information if missing" & "my photo was not changed" stories In many cases people complain but NEVER send me any email. I'm not able to read in your brains. At the moment all changes were made - and all main photos were changed. If your change was not made it makes only that I didn't received your email or.. you forgot to write me about it. Remove my dog from the database The information about your dog is NOT your "property" but property of the breed. Every dog which has the pedigree as "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" or is officially mentioned as "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" will be listed in the database. What is your property is you personal data: address, email address, a.s.o. If you want to have your data removed please contact me and I will make the changed after the next update.

27-05-2011, 15:49	#56
vero et sa meute Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sologne Posts: 375	bon au pire si c'est pas un tchèque Edora, j'ai ce modèle là qui devrait passer en coucours noter la superbe statique ca commence fort ok là je sorsssssssssssssssss __________________ le jour ou le loup entrera dans chaque foyer, que l'homme n'en aura plus peur, qu'il le respectera comme son egal et non comme un rival, l'humanité comprendra la nature et la protegera ....."

27-05-2011, 15:57	#58
admin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 583	Mixes First remember: A Czechoslovakian Wolfdog can be called ONLY a dog which comes from the dogs registered during the founding of the Czechoslovakian Breed Club in 1982 - dog which ALL ancestors were registered by the CsW Club. It means: all other crosses (with Malamute, Saarloos, Wolf and American Wolf), all dogs found "in the forest", all dogs with "empty" pedigrees ARE NOT Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. The are Wolfdogs but do not belong to the breed registered by FCI - even if because of any reason they get the pedigrees. At the moment there is first DNA test results which proved that a French dog coming from a famous French kennel is a Saaarloos-CzW mix. It is 100% sure. All dog from this line are already marked as "Saarloos_MIX". There are 100% known mixes in Italy - offisprings of white tundra wolf frossed with Malamute-GSD-alike_mix and later with CsW. The dogs wrere removed from Czech Republic and banned by the Czech Club - because of it they were smuggled to Italy and a bred there by some dishonest breeders. All the dogs are marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIX" The offsprings of the Finish mixes with the Wolf smuggled from Czech Republic are marked as (!!!_MIX_!!!). We have already information from a very serious (official) source which confirmed the doubts about other mixes among the French Wolfdogs. At the moment there are no official steps done against the breeders and owner are the whole thing is serious - in European Union it is forbidden to keep illegal wolf mixes F1-F4. Especially that the wolf is an protected specie. Every animal like this needs CITES card - in other case the animal will be taken away from the owner. In some countries keeping wolf crosses are illegal even with such card. You can be angry about Wolfdog.org but believe me - many people are trying to solve the problem in peace. First - because if we will do it official it can damage the breed and some countries can forbid breeding CsW even if the there are only 3-lines of illegal crosses. Second - if we make it official the dog will be taken away from the owners and almost for sure they will be put down. Also the owners will have really serious problems with the law. Because of it will try to solve the whole story "between" us - without asking for help of the official departments responsible for such cases. Doz is a wolf cross coming from Finland. It was already confirmed by the people from Czech Republic. I can not publish you more info but you all have the proofs in the front of you eyes: you all a wolfdog owners and you know that the basic characteristic of Wolfdogs is that puppies (offsprings) have a lot similarities with the parents, grand parents, grand-grandparents, a.s.o. Some dogs (which are crosses) do not apply it - they look totally different. Here is the photo of the mother of Doz which come from a genetic VERY strong line of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs: Do you see ANY similarity between her and her "daughter": or other puppies from this line? Of course there are none. Nothing is similar - the offspring look like a different breed. Do you really do not see it? Do you really believe in the lie about "perfect work of French breeders"? As I understand you wrote some angry words - but it is as I wrote you: the Saarloos crosses from France are already DNA proven. The wolf crosses are confirmed by very serious cynologist from France and from Czech Republic. What wonder me is: you are criticizing Wolfdog.org for making it public but I do not see any breeders which criticize the mentioned breeders for producing puppies with false pedigrees. Is it OK for you? Cheating is allowed? Do you see nothing wrong on it? Anyway - there are no official steps done till now. You have the possibility and time to stop it. And remember - in Czech Republic there was done an official sience work done on the Prague University which tested genetic of Saarloos, Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and German Shepherd Dogs. It is already possible to check if an animal is a purebreed CsW or if it is a cross with an other breed. Even if there are 10 or 20 generations gone from the false mating. If you will not stop it now and the mixes will spread among the French population it can come the time when the DNA test will be done and there will be proofs that one or two of the French line is a Malamute-American Wolf-CsW mix (as we can observe it now) and it will not affect 20-30 dogs like today but it can cause that the whole French pupulation will be marked as "not purebreed" wolfdogs (or simple said "!!!MIXES!!!"). It is only your choice what you will make about it. We will collect the information about all French mixes. One day the after the DNA test all the LINES will be marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIXES" (what they areally are).

27-05-2011, 16:01	#59
vero et sa meute Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sologne Posts: 375	Non Voice, c'est un sauvetage encore une fois de plus 3 bébés a la maison __________________ le jour ou le loup entrera dans chaque foyer, que l'homme n'en aura plus peur, qu'il le respectera comme son egal et non comme un rival, l'humanité comprendra la nature et la protegera ....."

27-05-2011, 16:02	#60
vero et sa meute Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sologne Posts: 375	c'est sympa je parle pas un mot anglais __________________ le jour ou le loup entrera dans chaque foyer, que l'homme n'en aura plus peur, qu'il le respectera comme son egal et non comme un rival, l'humanité comprendra la nature et la protegera ....."