Poisoning

[koboldine]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

To check for Chlostridium and pathogenous E.coli you normally have to send a sample to a lab or do the incubation yourself.

As AMARICANI has written: this happened *recently* and she *recovered* fast. Which means this process has already come to an end...so that is why I´ve pointed out that the vet - most certainly - has had enough time to examine the facae.
I´d like to stick to an old proverb: KISS - so I did not bother to explain the procedure in detail. Thanks for doing so.

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Even a non-Italian vet (strange point of view by the way) would need some time for that.

Yes, but why do you use this expression?

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Apart from time is another problem that facaessamples often don´t show the same bacterial population like the small intestins.

You are so right. Thanks for clarifying this problem.
That´s why I stated "possibilities" not facts, didn´t I?

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Only very, very few poisons cause high temperature and it is not very likely that a wolfdog will stay in the sun when having the choice till it gets such severe problems.

So in your opinion it is unusual in certain parts of this world to mix several - sometimes according to EC norms "ancient" poisons - in order to harm animals?
Concerning the likelyness of any dog to seek for a shadowy place in that state they would most certainly do. But as I don´t know the garden of AMERICANI I assumed that there might have been none. I should not assume, you´re right.

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Strychnin for example causes extreme convulsions as a main symptom. Cumarinderivates that are nowadays used in rat-poison cause melena but not higher temperature...

And again... mixing poisoning substances - even ones in DE would not be used anymore - seems to me something to look at.
Furthermore, stychnine does not neccessarily cause convulsions - in many cases it does, in some they are temporarily or do not occure at all - or might have been gone, when the dog has been found....

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Americani don´t you have toxicological emergency centers in Italy? In Germany you can call them, tell them the symptoms and they will tell you what poisons are a possible cause.

Well, the German Giftzentrale (toxicological emergency) is really really usefull! They do a really great job.
For humans there is the Centro Antiveleni, they deal mainly with substance which are known - e.g. one has eaten some fungi, you keep the rest and provide them with information, than they can help.

The way I´ve learnt it in Italy is that you ask the Corpo Forestale/Vet to send in a sample of the substance for analysis. Then - in at least two regions this takes about two weeks, more or less - they provide you with a report. And again - if you don´t have any substance....you see?

IF there is something else, AMERICANI, please name it and - if possible - also provide a phone number... I will at once file it in my cell.

Have a nice evening,
we will take a walk now :-)
koboldine

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by koboldine

So in your opinion it is unusual in certain parts of this world to mix several - sometimes according to EC norms "ancient" poisons - in order to harm animals?
Concerning the likelyness of any dog to seek for a shadowy place in that state they would most certainly do. But as I don´t know the garden of AMERICANI I assumed that there might have been none. I should not assume, you´re right.

I did understand that the dog escaped out of the yard.
The only poison that I know of without looking everything up that causes such a high temperature would have killed the dog by now.
If the dog would have get antibiotics and good other treatment an infection could have been solved quite soon.
I don´t think it will be found out what the reason was but Americani asked for possibilities and though one gets a different impression are infections more common then poisoning in such cases.

Originally Posted by koboldine

Well, the German Giftzentrale (toxicological emergency) is really really usefull! They do a really great job.
For humans there is the Centro Antiveleni, they deal mainly with substance which are known - e.g. one has eaten some fungi, you keep the rest and provide them with information, than they can help.

The way I´ve learnt it in Italy is that you ask the Corpo Forestale/Vet to send in a sample of the substance for analysis.
koboldine

Normally it should be possible to give a call and describe the symptoms to get a list of toxical possibilities.

Ina

[AMERICANI]

Elsa was in a shaded are when I found her. I had picked her up to bring her inside. On the way to the door I had to set her down.... This is when she started to go for shade. This area in which I am staying is VERY NASTY!! (have you seen the movie "Gomorrah"? that is near me!) Only Elsa and god know what she ate when she climbed my fence the previous day. A large percentage of people here, I would not discount as being capable or even willing to poison animals. Dogs are treated rather horribly, and packs roam the streets frequently. But besides intentional poisoning, it is very possible she just ate something exposed to some chemical which might have been dumped along the street. I still have the analysis results if you are interested, but by now I think I need to be happy she is alive and well. I am VERY happy to know I have all of you to discuss issues with. Thank you all. Jason Young