de Louba Tar kennel

[furyos]

goodnight everybody ... first thing...y m not a big breeder but y know mrs keizer 20years ago ...when she breed saarloos ..... well this pictures are (y think )so "manipulate action"!!!!y explain ...when it s rain ...sure yur dogs are so dirty and when it s spring or automn they change their coat ...sure they are not top of their beauty ...y visit keizer's kennel in summer and winter and can say that dogs are so nice and not dirty ...with pictures or movies yu can believe all yu see(hitler do this in propaganda..remember!!!!!) .....well now ...second things ::::y don t know mr paul(pacino) but y hear that version .../he live in keizer 's kennel 18months ...(with his wife and 7 dogs) and one day he leave for 4 months to go in travel and forget his dog.... to health of mr keizer ...after this experience ...he try a kennel in uk ...and want buy some dogs (because so good quality in dog show )to keizer kennel ...but she refuse this proposition ...and of course mr pacino don' t accept that and so so ungry and try all negative action to her ....and try all he can do to insult ms keizer ...A proove about that???? HOW MR PACINO HAVE THIS .... PICTURES????????????????????????if he don' t have an friendly intimity relation of live with mrs keizer before ???well y believe allways what y can see alone and y m not a "lamb who follow the group" ...BEWARE about that !!!!!!!!!!!....and ONLY ONE VERSION is not THE TRUTH ......y don t know mr pacino but y hate someone try to discradite an other person like politik men ...if yu have private problem with someone yu keep this private and not do this in public action like a forum ....this is my opinion ....y don' t give bad jugment if y don 't see alone the real personality about someone ...y just can say that mrs keizer work a lot for selection and try to have very good dog in show for future owners ....dogs don 't live with her ...BUT SHE LIVE with them .....(y hope yu understand this idea and notion of that)....y don' t think she 's a "rich girl" but y think she spend time and money in what she love : her passion ....and stop to talk if yu never meet her before ....y ever consult her about full questions about selection and breeding ...and all she explain is really true ....she have 20/30 years ago experience in this race (saarloos and tchek)and just for that y think we can have little respect ...that's all !!!!! greatings ...furyos

[furyos]

me agin ...just a questionfor mr paul ... ...y don t know yu and y don t juge yu of course BUT can yu explain mr paul why yu wait 3 years to write this and send this pictures ???? if yur sentiments in love about dogs contitions are top... why yu do a late reaction on this forum ???? and just explain to me WHY???? ,, reality please ....(in private reply if yu want) .... furyos

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by furyos

me agin ...just a questionfor mr paul ... ...y don t know yu and y don t juge yu of course BUT can yu explain mr paul why yu wait 3 years to write this and send this pictures ???? if yur sentiments in love about dogs contitions are top... why yu do a late reaction on this forum ???? and just explain to me WHY???? ,, reality please ....(in private reply if yu want) .... furyos

hi i will reply on line as i have nothing to hide, i have already given my reason as to why it has taken so long, so you must first of all read my mails, rain and bad weather does not cause dogs to get thin, nore does it cover a kennel in dog poo that has clearly been there for a while, as for selective breeding, well you like everyone else will have to wait a while yet then you can mail me again and explane about MRS Keizers selective breeding programe for you are in for a nasty shock, i have wanted to make this public for a long time but had to wait on the { red tape} to be sorted by the authorities, also to make sure the dogs will be safe as the French authorities have as you all know put down over 40 dogs at a kennels in France, i and others have made statements and given evidence and we will let the f.c.i. and the courts decide who is correct, i assure you we will win our case hands down, best regards paul uk

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by furyos

goodnight everybody ... first thing...y m not a big breeder but y know mrs keizer 20years ago ...when she breed saarloos ..... well this pictures are (y think )so "manipulate action"!!!!y explain ...when it s rain ...sure yur dogs are so dirty and when it s spring or automn they change their coat ...sure they are not top of their beauty ...y visit keizer's kennel in summer and winter and can say that dogs are so nice and not dirty ...with pictures or movies yu can believe all yu see(hitler do this in propaganda..remember!!!!!) .....well now ...second things ::::y don t know mr paul(pacino) but y hear that version .../he live in keizer 's kennel 18months ...(with his wife and 7 dogs) and one day he leave for 4 months to go in travel and forget his dog.... to health of mr keizer ...after this experience ...he try a kennel in uk ...and want buy some dogs (because so good quality in dog show )to keizer kennel ...but she refuse this proposition ...and of course mr pacino don' t accept that and so so ungry and try all negative action to her ....and try all he can do to insult ms keizer ...A proove about that???? HOW MR PACINO HAVE THIS .... PICTURES????????????????????????if he don' t have an friendly intimity relation of live with mrs keizer before ???well y believe allways what y can see alone and y m not a "lamb who follow the group" ...BEWARE about that !!!!!!!!!!!....and ONLY ONE VERSION is not THE TRUTH ......y don t know mr pacino but y hate someone try to discradite an other person like politik men ...if yu have private problem with someone yu keep this private and not do this in public action like a forum ....this is my opinion ....y don' t give bad jugment if y don 't see alone the real personality about someone ...y just can say that mrs keizer work a lot for selection and try to have very good dog in show for future owners ....dogs don 't live with her ...BUT SHE LIVE with them .....(y hope yu understand this idea and notion of that)....y don' t think she 's a "rich girl" but y think she spend time and money in what she love : her passion ....and stop to talk if yu never meet her before ....y ever consult her about full questions about selection and breeding ...and all she explain is really true ....she have 20/30 years ago experience in this race (saarloos and tchek)and just for that y think we can have little respect ...that's all !!!!! greatings ...furyos

hi first of all i do not hate MRS Keizer, but only what she has been doing with the dogs, and what other people who buy her dogs do not know about them, including things with pedigrees and false registration, did you know MRS kEIZER HAS NO BREEDERS LICENCE IN fRANCE,,,, well you do now... i did get my first czech via Mrs Keizer but it was not from her kennel , surprised// i left France to have the first litter of Czechs in uk.. i have owned and bred dogs successfully in uk for over 30 yrs , my bitch akita produced the top winning akita bitch in usa of all time, also the top winning dog A ustralia, so i am not an novice at dogs or breeding, I HAVE NEVER BOUGHT A DE LOUBA TAR DOG,,, if i didnt have good relations with MRS kEIZER THEN WHY DID I STAY 18 MTHS,,,, it took a long time to discover what was going on, i then asked questions and found someone who has worked a long time to stop this kennels, with there help we now have all we need, yes at present you only have my side of things and i do understand that if you are a friend of Mrs Keizers that you have every right to be upset, but you will be very very upset soon, but not with me,,, do you really think i would put this on a web site if i could not prove all i say,, surely Mrs Keizer would have a solisitor contact me for slander, or deformission of caracter, in case Mrs Keizer has not my details here they are,
mr paul winder
station farm
station road
appledore
kent
tn26 2dg.
thank you best regards paul..

[elf]

Dear Paul,

I am surprised by your charges, they are extremly serious. I'm also surprised the way you made it public in this forum if there are currently legal actions started and not statued yet.

My own little experience: I don't know personnaly Mrs Keizer, we only exchanged emails about the breed, all what she said to me was right and clever (I can judge it I'm PhD graduaded in genetic).

I would be glad if you could explain more.

Best regards,

Anthony

[furyos]

hi everybody;..yes y 'm agree with elf...y think that yur charges are so so important ..... and see on a private war ...but this is just my opinion ...mr paul you are free ....and you can think and do what yu think the best for yur mind ...BUT y don' t think that the solution is on this forum .... that's all ...yur image can became dark also....but yu are adult guy and it's so easy to have just one version .....y study in the pass law (but y m not lawer)and y think that yur acts on this forum are little too mutch in their foundments .... y try to respect all people and y prefer stop my intervention on this reply NOW!!! ....it's not my war !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....regards ..furyos

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by furyos

..y just can say that mrs keizer work a lot for selection and try to have very good dog in show for future owners ..u never meet her before ....y ever consult her about full questions about selection and breeding ...and all she explain is really true ....she have 20/30 years ago experience in this race (saarloos and tchek)and just for that y think we can have little respect ...that's all !!!!! greatings ...furyos

Originally Posted by elf

My own little experience: I don't know personnaly Mrs Keizer, we only exchanged emails about the breed, all what she said to me was right and clever (I can judge it I'm PhD graduaded in genetic).

Well, I just know Mrs. Keizer from one dog show and of stories of several Saarloos owners and the (very reliable) person Michael talked of - none of them positive.
I don´t know many of her dogs all I have seen haven´t been very good, looking at the standart and all of them have been shy but that may be accidential, maybe I only saw the wrong dogs.
But I just had a look at the datas of her kennel at wolfdog.org and besides the fact that none of her breeding dogs ever made a bonitation and that she never bothered to show them to a specialised judge or to show their HD-results, I have to say that for me a good selection and breeding program is something very different. She repeated the O-litter pairing one year later and the A-litter pairing 4 years later, if you look at the pedigrees there is not much variety over 10 years.
I personally think there are a lot of people that are much better sources for information and breeding for our breed.

So you may be right about her kind of dog keeping but I don´t know anybody going to official bonitations and clubshows with judges that know their job, that would agree with you about the selection and genetic point. So for me that kind of argumentation is a little bit strange.

Ina


Ina

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by furyos

hi everybody;..yes y 'm agree with elf...y think that yur charges are so so important ..... and see on a private war ...but this is just my opinion ...mr paul you are free ....and you can think and do what yu think the best for yur mind ...BUT y don' t think that the solution is on this forum .... that's all ...yur image can became dark also....but yu are adult guy and it's so easy to have just one version .....y study in the pass law (but y m not lawer)and y think that yur acts on this forum are little too mutch in their foundments .... y try to respect all people and y prefer stop my intervention on this reply NOW!!! ....it's not my war !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....regards ..furyos

hi its not a war, i feel it is my duty to both the czechoslovakian wolfdogs and the saarloos wolfhounds that have to live like this, i lived with these dogs for a long time and loved everyone of them, when i left two of my friends came to see us, when we made the photos and videos, we went to the kitchen area all four people in that room broke down and cried, yet we could not do anything for fear of the Frence authorities would destroy the dogs, it will all become clear very soon, i put this on the forum because the time was right and i want to make it clear, I and others want this breeder to be brought to justice, you will be amazed at what has been going on for over 15 yrs in Europe with the czech and saarloos, and the people involved, i want the dog world to know the facts, and when they come out then i am free to be critisized if it is felt nessesary, i respect people as a rule but when breeding dogs you are responsable for what you breed and sell, and if it is not correct then you sell dogs under fraudulent lies, the czechs and saarloos from these kennels look nothing like or even come in to there breed standards/// paul

[Rona]

I'm not defending or attacting de Louba Tar, I know nothing about the breeder. Ina's comments sound very reasonable.... thanks for bringing some common sense into the discussion, Ina.

Paul, I'm trying hard to follow your way of reasoning, but could you try to be a little more precise? It would really help us understand your position.

Originally Posted by pacino

i put this on the forum because the time was right

What happend to make the time right? French regulations've changed? You managed to get some authorities promise the dogs will not be exterminated? Maybe evidence was compiled? Or something else's happened? Tell us. Otherwise it looks strange - you looked after those skinny dogs every day for 18 months, left the place and now, after a few years, all of the sudden begin an "action"....and even now it's not clear what sort of action

Originally Posted by pacino

you will be amazed at what has been going on for over 15 yrs in Europe with the czech and saarloos,

Well, what has been going on? Tell us what you have in mind. I suppose lots of things have been going on - some very positive and some very nasty. We hear occassionaly about both. But what do YOU mean exactly - facts, facts please.

Originally Posted by pacino

when they come out then i am free to be critisized if it is felt nessesary

When, where and how will they come out? Is there a case in court? Did you inform the police? Maybe a TV programme is being made?

I suppose you have your truth, you reasons and probably evidence. But this is a public place and if you accuse somebody of something it's not enough to just say "one day you'll find out". You either provide good evidence, or tell exactly where and when one can see the evidence or ....write nothing. Otherwise it raises doubts. Anything can be written on the forum, as you probably know, and it's very hard to depict what is true, and what isn't.

What really matters is the condition of the dogs. It would be good to obtain some objective, reliable and recently confirmed info, not just old photos.

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by pacino

it will all become clear very soon, i put this on the forum because the time was right and i want to make it clear, I and others want this breeder to be brought to justice,

I hope, that you have carefully collected and saved all the hard evidence for your upcomming battle, before you made this public and that the time is really right. Because otherwise it can happen, that at the moment when police or veterinary control or other responsible officers enter the kennels, they will find them spotlessly clean, repared and fitted with all possible and impossible equipment, because with this topic you just gave the breeder excellent warning.

I agree with Ina, unfortunatelly, that I have never heard anything positive about de Louba Tar kennel, and the Louba Tar dogs, that I have met personally, were all shy and very, very skinny. However, according to the breeder they were apparently at show condition, because she seemed very proud of them..

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by furyos

y just can say that mrs keizer work a lot for selection and try to have very good dog in show for future owners ....dogs don 't live with her ...BUT SHE LIVE with them .....(y hope yu understand this idea and notion of that)....y don' t think she 's a "rich girl" but y think she spend time and money in what she love : her passion ....and stop to talk if yu never meet her before ....y ever consult her about full questions about selection and breeding ...and all she explain is really true ....she have 20/30 years ago experience in this race (saarloos and tchek)and just for that y think we can have little respect ...that's all !!!!! greatings ...furyos

Sorry, but I disagree here with you. Very good dog in show does not mean excellent dog. And always, always the standard should be kept.
De Louba Tar does not x-ray the dogs (or at least, the results are not known), it does not do bonitations, and the selection in breeding, if there is any, is rather unclear. Most of the dogs from this kennel look very, very different than standard CSW, sorry to say.
Perhaps they might be winning dog shows in Netherlands or France, when judges, friends of Mr. Keizer are judging. But the very same dogs would not get better than very good, if they were judged by judges, specialists to the breed. Which is why you will never see these dogs at such dog shows.
If that´s selection, it is very incorrect, if I say it nicely. If I am blunt, as usual, I say it is no selection at all, just mass production of puppies.

By what one measures experience with the race? By amount of puppies, produced in one kennel? Or by amount of dogs, one had kept in his kennels and never did anything with them during the years? Or by amount of dog shows, one had time to visit?

I had met people, who considered themselves dog experts, because they had dogs at home for more than twenty years. Yet they did not understand their dogs basic behaviour and their dogs did not even have the basic obedience.

I used to breed at home rabbits for more than ten years, should I be considered a rabbit specialist now? I don´t think so.

[elf]

So for me that kind of argumentation is a little bit strange.

Ina, please notice that I said "we only exchanged emails about the breed" and not said "I analyse all the breeding program". This is quiet different, this is a very serious story so everyone has to choose carefully its words and read carefully eachother.

Anthony

[*Satu]

I don´t see any sick dogs.
Some dog are little light conditions but not too thin.But i can´t say anything only about pics.

I have seen Mrs Keizer ones whit his saarloos and these dog was look nice and healty.

Pacino do you have summertime pics?

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Rona

I'm not defending or attacting de Louba Tar, I know nothing about the breeder. Ina's comments sound very reasonable.... thanks for bringing some common sense into the discussion, Ina.

Paul, I'm trying hard to follow your way of reasoning, but could you try to be a little more precise? It would really help us understand your position.

What happend to make the time right? French regulations've changed? You managed to get some authorities promise the dogs will not be exterminated? Maybe evidence was compiled? Or something else's happened? Tell us. Otherwise it looks strange - you looked after those skinny dogs every day for 18 months, left the place and now, after a few years, all of the sudden begin an "action"....and even now it's not clear what sort of action


Well, what has been going on? Tell us what you have in mind. I suppose lots of things have been going on - some very positive and some very nasty. We hear occassionaly about both. But what do YOU mean exactly - facts, facts please.


When, where and how will they come out? Is there a case in court? Did you inform the police? Maybe a TV programme is being made?

I suppose you have your truth, you reasons and probably evidence. But this is a public place and if you accuse somebody of something it's not enough to just say "one day you'll find out". You either provide good evidence, or tell exactly where and when one can see the evidence or ....write nothing. Otherwise it raises doubts. Anything can be written on the forum, as you probably know, and it's very hard to depict what is true, and what isn't.

What really matters is the condition of the dogs. It would be good to obtain some objective, reliable and recently confirmed info, not just old photos.

it has been very frustrating for us as we had to gather lots of evidence, it has taken a long time, we can not work on hear say, we needed hard evidence that could be used in court, we needed wittnesses to make statements, photo, videos, there are other people involved as well, so yet more evidence was needed, it took over a year to find just one dog we needed, and it has been hard every day as in our hearts we knew that the dogs we so despiratly wanted to help were still living in hell,, our evidense has been sent to the authorities and other places, untill we get the reply i can not say anything, i was told i could now show the photos and some videos, and i put them up right away to make sure people could see the conditions of the dogs, in your mail posted to day it states {all we see is old photos /////} for your benifit look at the last photo on my web site IT WAS TAKEN TWO WEEKS AGO..... so nothing has changed,, i thought it would be of some use to expose this breeder and we ask no one to buy dogs from these kennels, but to help close them,, i am sorry that at present i can not disclose any more facts but it could affect the out come in court, and you must all understand this, my aim at present is to expose this breeder to the public and to make them aware of the health and conditions of these dogs, you have seen photos of dogs that were taken at dog shows and comments have been made on this web site about the dogs before, it is sad that you say give us evidence or say nothing at all, as it raises doughts,, do these photos i show leave anyone on this web site with any doughts that the dogs are living in terrible conditions, does it leave anyone with any doughts that these dogs are under weight, and does it leave anyone with any doughts that this breeder should not be allowed to own any dogs at all,, i think not, yes anyone can write on this site, the photos are not words they are evidence, and the same photos are with the authorities, they tell no lies at all,, so why would anyone dought what i say, i give you all evidence in the photos, as i said before the rest will follow and as soon as i know so will everyone else, regards paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by *Satu

I don´t see any sick dogs.
Some dog are little light conditions but not too thin.But i can´t say anything only about pics.

I have seen Mrs Keizer ones whit his saarloos and these dog was look nice and healty.

Pacino do you have summertime pics?

hi, have you looked at the photos??? you state {some dogs are light conditions} no the dogs are clearly under norished and very very thin, showing the complete out line of the full rib cadge,, have i any summer photos ? yes i have the only difference is the dogs are dry but still very thin,, the ardense in France is very cold and wet in the winter, so for at least 3-4 months of the year the dogs are wet and cold, they live outside and many of the dogs are out in compounds all night WITH NO SHELTER,, the czechs and saarloos are hardy dogs as we know and can with stand certain conditions, but a thin dog out all night in the rain and cold will not do very well, do you know that the condition of a dog in good health and of good weight will with stand the cold and wet conditions better than that of a thin and under norished dog ? well you do now,, for it is a true fact, no dog at all either fit and healthy or very thin should have to live in these conditions, i am very glad you are not the dog warden in my area ///// regards paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

I hope, that you have carefully collected and saved all the hard evidence for your upcomming battle, before you made this public and that the time is really right. Because otherwise it can happen, that at the moment when police or veterinary control or other responsible officers enter the kennels, they will find them spotlessly clean, repared and fitted with all possible and impossible equipment, because with this topic you just gave the breeder excellent warning.

I agree with Ina, unfortunatelly, that I have never heard anything positive about de Louba Tar kennel, and the Louba Tar dogs, that I have met personally, were all shy and very, very skinny. However, according to the breeder they were apparently at show condition, because she seemed very proud of them..

hi , yes all the evidence is complete , the conditions is only one part of the evidence, and if the kennels were cleaned up it would not matter at all, in fact i hope the breeder is out there right now cleaning them,,, if you took a dog to a dog show n uk that looked like one from this kennel you would be arrested by the police or dog warden for cruelty to an animal,, you can not as one person give any time to your dogs when you own over 100 dogs, if i was at the kennel by myself i would start at 7:00 by the time i cleaned out the kennels and pens, cleaned the food bowls, changed the water. feed the dogs, cleaned out the bitchs with pups, fed the pups, changed the dogs round into the outside compounds it was 11:00 at night i would not stop for lunch or dinner, when finnished i would eat and wash then bed, 16 hrs flat out,, to get to know a dog here you would have to take it to bed with you,, it was not so bad when the 3 of us were working i then had time to take some dogs to the excercise area were i enjoyed many happy hours with the dogs, this was of coarse when the long summer nights were in, the winter in Ardense is very cold, we recorded wind chill of -34 you had to leave the hose pipe running while cleaning or it would freeze in less than 10 minutes, so for thin dogs it was very hard time, by the way not all dogs get thin from not being feed correct, some dogs get very frustrated being in kennel all day and bounce of the walls especially czechs,,, kennel mad,, regards paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by elf

Dear Paul,

I am surprised by your charges, they are extremly serious. I'm also surprised the way you made it public in this forum if there are currently legal actions started and not statued yet.

My own little experience: I don't know personnaly Mrs Keizer, we only exchanged emails about the breed, all what she said to me was right and clever (I can judge it I'm PhD graduaded in genetic).

I would be glad if you could explain more.

Best regards,

Anthony

hi why are you surprised i made this public, are you not glad that we take action against this breeder, are you not glad that you now know the conditions the dogs have to live in, of coarse we take legal action we want it stoped for good, of coarse Mrs Keizer will be right she is a very well educated woman and very intelligent, and i did myself learn things from her, and i have been breeding dogs for 30 yrs, Mrs Keizer is very knowledgable about both the czech and saarloos breeds and i went there to learn before a took on a czechoslovakian wolfdog, this is even more reason why there is no excuse for the conditions the dogs live in, as you are phd graduate in genetics then you will know if you cross a poodle with a husky you cant call the offspring a poodle nor can you call it a husky MRS KEIZER ALSO KNOWS THIS////////

[Rona]

Thanks for your explanations, Paul. Keep us informed on developments.
Rona

[elf]

Paul, I'm not glad the way you used this forum. For the rest it's not my position to judge or to post my thoughts regarding the lack of all the complete informations. I guess many of us should wait complements or justice informations before posting side way. One first justice principle: the doubt have to profit to the shown. At the present time you did not bring enough for the doubt to disappear, so you started a rumour (maybe many people know more about this story, but most of the people reading don't !). I wait more additions from you or the authorities, and will stop posting as it will be steril and contribute to the rumour (right now it's still a rumour).

I don't like to see such pictures posted without all the context detailed. I don't like the way you made it public and then said I have to wait to give more informations (so then my opinion is you should also have waited to post this). I know many rumours which ran this way and was wrong at the end ; but then, even the facts corrected it was to late, people were definitely spoiled.

To be clear to you: my contestation is the form you used, which is definitly wrong (even if all you said I right). The form you present it is very important, and there are rules to follow to be clean. I not habilitated to judge the rest and won't do in the name of my thoughts. So I wait for the end of the full story, which will be bad and sad in each case.

Anthony

[*Satu]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi, have you looked at the photos??? you state {some dogs are light conditions} no the dogs are clearly under norished and very very thin, showing the complete out line of the full rib cadge,, have i any summer photos ? yes i have the only difference is the dogs are dry but still very thin,, the ardense in France is very cold and wet in the winter, so for at least 3-4 months of the year the dogs are wet and cold, they live outside and many of the dogs are out in compounds all night WITH NO SHELTER,, the czechs and saarloos are hardy dogs as we know and can with stand certain conditions, but a thin dog out all night in the rain and cold will not do very well, do you know that the condition of a dog in good health and of good weight will with stand the cold and wet conditions better than that of a thin and under norished dog ? well you do now,, for it is a true fact, no dog at all either fit and healthy or very thin should have to live in these conditions, i am very glad you are not the dog warden in my area ///// regards paul

I saw Keizer whit her dogs in EW-06 dogshow.These dogs were good condition.

How many times you have visit big kennels in Europe?

Yes. maybe there is problems but sometimes pics don´t tell trues. Yes i see so wet kennel and dogs and i don´t know what kind is conditions of dogs.

How many dogs there is so thin? You don´t tell that...

As you went to Louba Tar and there 49 dogs was these dogs in bad condition already? when this pictures taken?
You worked 18month there how many times vet or animalrescue people wist there?
Are this dogs in pictures worstest in this kennel?


My dogs lives inside house they sleep in my bed they eat everyday twice times and they can run and play many hours a day.
They don´t live outside kennel cage so you don´t have right to say anything about my dogs and my profecionity.

I working whit animals everyday (over 16years) and if i see something what you have sow i do something immediately.

Regards Satu.. how don´t know anything about dogs or animals