Mixes: Crying Wolf (Hungary)

[Max Paini]

Thanks to the widespread use of the site wolfdog.org in Europe, the behavior of the owner of the domain (Margo Peron) and the Administrator officially declared (Paula Pandolfo) makes them complicit with this phantom admin of defamation and unfair competition, offenses punishable by European laws implemented by individual member states, especially in the Criminal Code. I agree with Martha that it is not worth to an individual owner to sue for them, but if the situation is not resolved quickly, I invite anyone interested to contact me to study the possibility to make a common cause. It's cleare that with any proof and no evidence of nothing, admin can not sign as a mix a dog that have all document complitely in order. The only reason admin have is the one to preserve owner of the website, is kennel and his soldier as Daive is in a world where today competition is strong and them dog are not at level of other. As reading in other page now is time that wolfdog.org understand that he is not referrent of the breed.

Massimiliano Paini and Zenith od Uhoste (purebreed - world winner 2011 - top dog enci 2011)

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Max Paini

.... the Administrator officially declared (Paula Pandolfo) ....

Proofs, proofs! Where are the proofs?!....

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Max Paini

Thanks to the widespread use of the site wolfdog.org in Europe, the behavior of the owner of the domain (Margo Peron)

I hope you FULLY understand what you are wrote right now and you know what will be the consequences according to the European Law in the case of unfounded slanders and aspersions. I know you are writing those words at the command of your breeder but I do not care about it any more: it is a serious case and I have already enough of the lies spread by your breeder and also by owners of her puppies like you.

So please prepare the proofs and post them here within 24 hours. I hope it will be more than the photos manipulated by your breeder which she posted on Facebook. She has already compromised herself enough as a breeder and a member of the CsW community - she was a black sheep in the Czech Club when she started the breeding in CZ and it seems she decided to keep the way.
But now I wait for real proofs from YOU. After 24 hours I will start to ask for consequences against your person. Because freedom of speech in this forum do not mean that everybody can post any lies without and proofs! And it apply also to you!

At the moment I can write in public comment to your text: YOU ARE A LIAR. And as opposed to you I will be able to prove it in the court. I have already enough of your whole gang which consist of people sick with envy whose goal is to blame others. And who are doing it just for fun: without any proofs. I know your breeder is going crazy as after so many years of breeding she didn't reached ANYTHING. Her kennel name is famous but not thanks to the achievements of her dogs but "thanks" to the topics like those:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19642
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21527
Or because of angry words said and written by other breeders who were landered by her.
It is really sad to see other (I though serious) people are joining her. But it is YOUR choice.

Now I'm waiting for your apologies (I know that you do not show any proofs because they do not exist). 24 hours.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Max Paini

is kennel and his soldier as Daive is in a world where today competition is strong and them dog are not at level of other.

The topic of Daiva you should really leave! Yes, there is a competition in the CsW world. And it is strong. And if there is a GOOD breeder then the only possibility to "fight" with him is to spread the lies about him. And it is what Hanka do for example about Daiva. They are the BEST examples of it - of the sick situation which appears in the CsW world.

I have no idea why Hanka is so crazy about Daiva. So envy about her. But it is visible already since several years. I think Hanka is envy because Daiva is on a level unattainable for her when it comes to the information about breed and knowledge about Wolfdogs. Hanka is breeding dogs longer but I really doubt if she will ever know so much about them as Daiva do. It is my opinion.
Some people say it is the "stud dog fight" - both own sons of Kondor but while the dogs of Daiva became much more popular and because people wrote many positive opinions about him the funny lies started to appear. About missing tooth, aggression, wrong bites. Guess who is the author of these lies? BINGO.
And she is spreading the lies about Daivas dog even if everybody an see it is her invention (the dog is already champion of several countries and was judges and bonitated by judges from the origin countries who didn't found any faults).
Anyway she is keeping to spread the lies. Daiva was for a long time more than that. Till she discovered that Hanka is doing much more tha "stud dog fighting". One time they met in Latvia(?) person who wanted a puppy from Hanka. The woman spoke so much bad opinions about Daivas dogs. After a talk she send Daiva email(s?) she get from the "Czech CsW guru" - Hanka. I saw one and I know what Hanka wrote about Daivas dogs. LIES, LIES, LIES. Really nice dogs became "aggressive without any reasons", aso. Believe me - for me it was enough to convince me that Hanka is a unscrupulous person. Since this time I do not wish any contact with her. The only letter I saw would be enough for Daiva to drag Hanka to the court.
I understand why Daiva did't do it: on the contrary to Hanka she is not breeding dogs for money. She do not need to care for the "market" and selling huge number of puppies. She really loves this breed. People who know Daiva, and who know what is going on in the CsW world do not care for people like Hanka - Hanka will be not able to destroy Daivas good image as breeder even if she will start to spread 2x more lies about her. But at the same time I really understand why Daiva is so angry about Hanka and I support it.

And it do not only apply to breeders from other countries. There is a really good kennel in CZ - z Údolí ticha. With great dogs and breeder who really care for his puppies and is doing really good work! I already heard REALLY bad opinions about his dogs said by Hanka. Only because this man is doing a great work in CZ and people from abroad appreciate his work. It was enough for her to blame his dogs.

So not Daiva is a "soldier" of anyone. She is just a victim of lies spread by Hanka.
But YOU ARE a soldier of Hanka. Unfortunately I doubt if you can be proud of it.

[Max Paini]

Margo
1) I’m able to understand when I make a mistake, so you are right, from 10 days ago 14/03/2012 when the ownership of the domain were removal it’s not more possible to reed who are today owner and official admin of the website.
2) It’s cleare that 10 day ago were difference, but the only prove easily to see is older of about two year, when you confirm what I said (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13252)
3) Due to that the only people that can resolve the matter is simply (due to the reason that you are not) is new owner/admin.
4) One question, who is that should command me? This point is not clear, I saw that wolfdog.org marked my dog as (_?_) and I pretend that this was cancelled immediately due to the reason that as you said “you know what will be the consequences according to the European Law in the case of unfounded slanders and aspersions”, so please if you know who is new admin give him/her my message
5) Hanka Hanka Hanka, I’m really not interest in matter about you Hanka Daiva (a people that I don’t know, so I’m sure we are speaking of really nice person, the same for you and Hanka) but those are not my problem, I’m asking for myself and my dog. Breeding, money and so on are not my problem I’m simply a people that want respected his right, I’m not a breeder I’ve not a kennel and I have several friend owner of many kennel in all Europe. For me are all friend without problem.
6) As you said competition is strong in CsW world, and also in this point I’m not involved, my work is other, but at the same time there is competition and competition, what wolfdog.org is doing is simply unacceptable.
7) It’s clear that for me to, if there is a battle that should win to preserve our wonderful breed is the one about mix. It’s clear that what wolfdog.org is doing now is only a big confusion only use full for somebody.


Ciao

[plongeuse]

Margo, the problems between Hanka and Daiva aren't us problems. They must solve that between them.
We just want to know what does mean those symbols. Why certain dogs are ! and others ? !

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by plongeuse

Margo, the problems between Hanka and Daiva aren't us problems. They must solve that between them.

Of course it is not your problem. But it is the reason of many lies spread around - also by Max Paini.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Max Paini

Margo

Max, I gave up administration of Wolfdog long time ago exactly because I didn't wanted to be involved in any wars where I was not the involved part. For a long time I was the goal of gossips spread by all these producers who were angry that Wolfdog.org exists: they were angry that Wolfdog made impossible the cheating of the new owners: it was no more possible for them to cheat about the HD-results, bonitation results and working or show results. It made them so furious.

Some time ago they were able to pull me in their mess by making me responsible for everything. Now it is over and believe me - I will not allow to do the same now. If my name appears in similar topics one more time - I will not let it...

Previously, I was able to pull in their swamp.

Originally Posted by Max Paini

5) Hanka Hanka Hanka, I’m really not interest in matter about you Hanka Daiva

Unfortunately exactly Hanka is a person who is spreading the lies about 'Margo the administrator' (for example of Facebook). What you wrote here is just an echo of her words.

It is only one point on the huge list of lies spread by her. And the reasons of her lies are clear to me. But this point concerns me and I'm not going to let it so.

PS. About the '!' and '?' you must ask the people who are responsible for it. I asked some time ago and there is still no answer...

[Puma]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Exactly, the owners should contact their breeders and ask them to check the dogs instead of attacking people, who just try to save the breed from mixes...

So this is how one 'saves' the breed?

I don't think so.

This is just a desperate act out of frustration, stirring the pot, not a solution. Not at all.

We have a saying: when pointing at someone else with one finger, it is actually pointing at one self with the other 4 fingers.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Puma

This is just a desperate act out of frustration, stirring the pot, not a solution. Not at all.

And there's valid reason for frustration...

[loco]

Originally Posted by Rona

Proofs, proofs! Where are the proofs?!....

I thought the rule is still true, that one is not guilty until proven guilty.
But, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Puma]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

And there's valid reason for frustration...

Maybe, but as said, not a solution.

Hundreds of dogs, suddenly being marked as suspicious, without further research or investigation, owners being told to contact breeders, it is all insane.

Replace the dogs with humans and Adolf Hitler would have been proud of this action.

It is disgusting, no more no less.

[Puma]

Originally Posted by Rona

Proofs, proofs! Where are the proofs?!....

Well, let me ask you the same question. Where are the proofs for the accusations for all these dogs being marked? All proofs individually, please.

[GalomyOak]

I personally take offense to the comparison of an attempt by wolfdog.org to compel owners and breeders to demand DNA testing of some specimans of *a PURE BREED OF DOGS with very clear breedig boundaries* which come from lines of breeders tied to very suspicious looking and acting breedings....to the actions or thoughts of Adolph Hitler on humanity. I think wolfdog.org is making a point for people to see that the problem is potentially not limited to a handful of dogs...but can grow exponentially in just a few years.

For me, when someone lies, it also makes me question the whole integrity of that person - and in the case of a breeder, the integrity of the breeding program. I don't particularly like the anonymous nature of Admin, and have several friends upset with (-!-) beside their dog's names, who I believe are probably pure...but really, as a breeder and lover of the breed, the thing that unsettles me most is the complacency of breed clubs, breeders, owners to allow mixed breedings to go on....and quietly "sweep them under the rug". Complacency to quietly allow bad things to go on, and not become involved...the root of the problem being clearly suspicious dogs passed off as pure CSVs...is a dangerous mindset. Always, I think we should have an expectation of truth, of science in dog breeding...and not of blind faith.

[Puma]

Galamyoak,

I think you misread my reaction.

On topic,

I cannot believe there is any owner on this forum, that doesnot agree to the wish for a healthy breed of our beloved Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs, all according to the regulations in different countries. I also wish to believe, that all of us here condemn the actions of breeders or others, who willingly and knowingly break the rules and regulations or who have mal intentions for our beloved breed.

Having said that, this action we are discussing here, is uncalled for and doesnot solve anything.

First of all, the admin function here seems to be an anonymous one, as no one, including moderators, knows who exactly is the admin.

And people should in all cases take responsibility for their acts and come forward with their identity, when blaming others or even worse, mark others, without even being clear, what the marking exactly stands for.

But what frightens me the most, is the fact that there are true belivers, who think such actions, as from the admin's side is to be praised and owners, who have no idea what is going on, are being told to go their respective breeders and ask for clarification.

And even worse, some here seem to even enjoy themselves, when owners feel upset about uncalled actions and marking.

How can people take joy in putting up people against eachother, when the actual solution asked for is a worldwide group of people, owners and breeders, who share a passion for the same: the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog.


If you wish to solve this matter, work on a solution with those responsible for the problem, don't include those, who are not part of the problem and brand them as guilty for something, that has not even been clarified.

Exactly like Loco stated, no double standards please.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Puma

Maybe, but as said, not a solution.
Hundreds of dogs, suddenly being marked as suspicious,

Where is it written dogs are suspicious of anything?

Originally Posted by Puma

... it is all insane. Replace the dogs with humans and Adolf Hitler would have been proud of this action.

It is disgusting, no more no less.

It's disgusting and insane to make such comparison. It's you who are indecently arrogant to write such thing in a forum where there are people who lost their relatives in Nazi concentration camps!

Shame of you!!!

I kindly ask the moderator for a reaction!!!

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Puma

If you wish to solve this matter, work on a solution with those responsible for the problem, don't include those, who are not part of the problem and brand them as guilty for something, that has not even been clarified.

As I understand it, 'those responsible for the problem' don't wish to cooperate. And owners of these kennels' dogs are not really 'part of the problem' but can be 'part of the solution'.. instead of seeing this mark as something terrible, maybe one can see it as an incentive to seek clarity with their breeders. I see nothing wrong with that. A breeder owes it to their puppy buyers anyway as it is.

[Puma]

Rona,

As far as there is a comparison, it is about the thought of generalizing individual cases to all genetic descendants and marking them, based on non proven accusations.

Work on solutions, not on creating stories, I would suggest to those, supporting this action.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Puma

Rona,

As far as there is a comparison, it is about the thought of generalizing individual cases to all genetic descendants and marking them, based on non proven accusations.

Still, IMO you should apologize for using it!

[jmvdwiel]

The question is how reliable this website is at the moment. Several dogs are marked with ? or ! without any form of an explanation.

It looks to me almost like a withcraft to several breeders, and without any eplanation. As it is a private website wouldn't it be easier to just stop this website as nobody can be trusted?

Maybe you can start by removing al the information from my dog that I did provide to you, all the medical and pictures please. Thank you for you help

greetings judith