Communism - what you think about it?

[GalomyOak]

It's really interesting, the conversation between Rona and Morian. I always try to see things for how they really are (and were), but in the US, we are also heavily influenced by our media - and our education (which sadly isn't often too different from the media). I guess I am from the "newer" generation, but I know in my parent's and grandparents generation, and maybe even the generation just before mine, there was the "anti-communist rhetoric" - and still the notion of "cash-strapped" countries persists, even though we know most of what we were told back then was all foolish propoganda... I also know from traveling, and living overseas and talking that "romantic" visions of the US exist too in other countries (I have neither hardcore gangster criminals nor dude ranches anywhere close to where I live. Nor are there huge Hollywood mansions - there are people living nearby who have neither electricity or running water). I guess the beauty of the internet is now we have access beyond the T.V, news, and textbooks - to real people. I cherish the sharing and stories that come from an international community! And I wish I hadn't needed an entry visa (which I didn't have) to enter Russia when I was right at the border a couple of years ago!

[draggar]

Marcy - I'm not much older than you and we were taught like that in school, too. Even after the Berlin Wall fell it was like that (of course, most of our books weren't 100% current anyway).

[Rona]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

. I also know from traveling, and living overseas and talking that "romantic" visions of the US exist too in other countries (I have neither hardcore gangster criminals nor dude ranches anywhere close to where I live. Nor are there huge Hollywood mansions - there are people living nearby who have neither electricity or running water)

You're absolutely right. In the 'old times' some (not all, naturally) people in my country honestly belived that in the UK, USA, France and other so-called developed countries money lied in the streets and waited to be picked up. Unfortunately MacGyver, Dynasty, and similar productions were very persuasive.

Well, people have always belived, what they wanted to belive and we can see it even on this forum

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

I also know from traveling, and living overseas and talking that "romantic" visions of the US exist too in other countries (I have neither hardcore gangster criminals nor dude ranches anywhere close to where I live. Nor are there huge Hollywood mansions - there are people living nearby who have neither electricity or running water).

there are both gangsters and Hollywood mansions here, and I always have to wonder why anyone would choose to come here voluntarily I didn't..but, you're right, there are popular assumptions of the US as well.. I always ask my foreign friends after they stayed for some time, whether reality matched their preconceptions. Surprisingly, some have said yes..

[Silvester]

Originally posted by Rona:
"Well, people have always belived, what they wanted to belive and we can see it even on this forum"

Wise words - and very true !

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Silvester

Originally posted by Rona:
"Well, people have always belived, what they wanted to belive and we can see it even on this forum"

Wise words - and very true !

Thank you

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Morian

i didn't tell it personally for you, but for the people who curse "occupants" etc. i see same effects from eu and many people damn it too, and what?

Morian, how many members of your family were killed, taken to Siberia or had to run away from soviets?

What was this topic about anyway?

[Morian]

vaiva, another question - have you lived in those times you hate so much? i don't want to continue this discussion here, just afraid to offend someone

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Morian

vaiva, another question - have you lived in those times you hate so much? i don't want to continue this discussion here, just afraid to offend someone

Not much. I was born in 1983. My parents did. Grandparents did. Or do you think they all just lie about "these times"? They just created some horror stories themselves? Yes, this discussion would be more suitable in private, because it is not about wolfdogs.

Morion, don't you feel that political environment and your nice childhood memories do not allow you to see some things in real light? Please, inform me next time you come to Lithuania, I will be glad to show you the other side

[Morian]

vaiva, i'm very sorry, but for me it's not too difficult to explain your position. but i really don't want to offend you. and believe me, i know about soviets not from "nice childhood memories" unlike you. i don't want to discuss it nor here, heither in private or in lithuania i wrote here what i think and maybe you must read it once again. i wrote that i don't protect soviets, i don't support soviets and surely i don't advertise soviets from my point of view this world is not black/white, hope you also have no problems with your eyes

[Morian]

oh, vaiva, i have an idea if you want to talk about soviets when my communist boyfiend comes home - i'll give him this link

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Not much. I was born in 1983. My parents did. Grandparents did. Or do you think they all just lie about "these times"? They just created some horror stories themselves? Yes, this discussion would be more suitable in private, because it is not about wolfdogs.

Morion, don't you feel that political environment and your nice childhood memories do not allow you to see some things in real light? Please, inform me next time you come to Lithuania, I will be glad to show you the other side

hmm my parents born in CCCP, grown and end universitat free, can travel in others land who be in CCCP very cheap, when maried became a flat free, have a work without problem. My grandma say - not russian or german was bad, not simple people but politic system .
but yes this not place speak about this. All imperium have and good and bad side. better see in future not back

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

What was this topic about anyway?

This topic is about all the countries which are dishonest. Limited only to 'poor' ones.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by wolfin

My grandma say - not russian or german was bad, not simple people but politic system .

Your grandma was right In all times, in all systems, there have always been authorities (decision makers), institutions that supported or struggleed with them and common people who followed various philosophies, values & norms, views, etc. etc. These three notions should not be confused when discussing sensitive issuses

Vaiva, I understood Morian was just trying to point out how stereotypical Draggar's commnent was.

BTW, could the moderator cut the "historic" part out from the main topic?

[Morian]

yes, rona, you're 100% right

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Rona

Your grandma was right In all times, in all systems, there have always been authorities (decision makers), institutions that supported or struggleed with them and common people who followed various philosophies, values & norms, views, etc. etc. These three notions should not be confused when discussing sensitive issuses

Vaiva, I understood Morian was just trying to point out how stereotypical Draggar's commnent was.

BTW, could the moderator cut the "historic" part out from the main topic?

I did not acuse any countries or people - just the system Many friends of mine are russians, but non of them are comunists And - Rona - in communist times Poland and Czechoslovakia seemed a nice dream when looking from Lithuania.
Yes, it was nice - studies for free (just be a member of young comunists, have exams from atheism and so on), flats for free (just be a good behaving member of a comunist party, do not think too much also), but to buy a refrigerator you have to stand in line Same three kinds of sausage in a shop (including this ugly "no-meet" boiled thing "šlapenka"), standing in line for an hour for toilet paper (when there is some, not allways!!!), oranges only on Christmas. Same clothes for everyone (still remember sometimes with my friends - "did you have a black synthetic fur coat with round wooden buttons? Mine were green"). Jeans only if you have an uncle in USA who sent it (I still have one in Florida ). And also there was no crime or disabled people, yes, just because newspapers could not write about bad things, only about great tractor drivers and happy factory workers, and nobody cared about disabled people

It is so good to live in a comunist country - not much working, not much thinking and everything is given for free Slaves are allways happy if they do not need to work too much and get some cheap food and vodka, aren't they?

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

It is so good to live in a comunist country - not much working, not much thinking and everything is given for free Slaves are allways happy if they do not need to work too much and get some cheap food and vodka, aren't they?

you to young member this all and speak like this type people who not know who was realy but only heard about this.
slaves are not this people who stay in Lithuania and not runn - not all but bigest procent and was free in mind and in heart, slaves for good lives are this who runn away and cry - "they are a patriots" ...
funny this all and not moore.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by wolfin

you to young member this all and speak like this type people who not know who was realy but only heard about this.
slaves are not this people who stay in Lithuania and not runn - not all but bigest procent and was free in mind and in heart, slaves for good lives are this who runn away and cry - "they are a patriots" ...
funny this all and not moore.

Yes, I quted my mum But still remember the same clothes that everyone had and living in... do not know the word in English... a place where ten young familys share one kitchen, one toilet and one shower My mother still remembers evenings, when they had two eggs and baked them silently, afraid, that if I will wake up and also want one - in this case one of them will stay hungry. And this is a family of both working lawyers and a child, still in kindergarden, living in town (countryside was in better situation).

In this case slaves are the ones, who do not care for freedom, for ability to have their own country and their right to speak/write/think/even sing what they want to, if they just can have something for free... The ones that still say "ah, I do not care for freedom, give me cheap sausage".

[Morian]

it all smells like teen maximalism when a person is unable to perceive reality objectively, (s)he should seek medical help. i speak as a physician

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Morian

it all smells like teen maximalism when a person is unable to perceive reality objectively, (s)he should seek medical help. i speak as a physician

A good trick when you have no arguments is to say that the contradicting person has problems with his mind Also reminds of something... To acuse people they are mentaly sick and for this to hold them isolated...