DM Testresults - Page 16

BRUCH · 08-07-2011, 10:00

Chett Maly Bysterec is N/N, whit test

Obra Arimminum is N/N, from eligo and ambra all two N/N

so all the litter L and N from kennel Lupi del Montale are N/N

bye

www.lupidelmontale.it

saschia · 08-07-2011, 10:34

I think it would be correct to post results of parents/offspring based on the knowledge of test results of offspring/parents only if parentage tests were performed and positive. Otherwise it is always only assumption and can be easily misused (like the fake pedigrees). Or, in case of widely-used studs (dams) it may be posted, but separately, and saying clearly that these are not results of DNA tests, only assumption.

GalomyOak · 08-07-2011, 11:45

Below is the policy for the OFFA on genetics. Please note, it is ok to list a first generation dog as "clear by parentage" (marked with "CBP" in official results) if both parents have been tested. OFFA will only give this to first generation dogs, recognizing that our science is still limited and mutations are possible. They require testing for the next generations.
http://offa.org/cbp.html

BRUCH · 08-07-2011, 15:39

if someone wont to do some assumption of berseker z peronowki:
jolly z molu es :N/N mum
botis z peronowki :N/N brother
ezar del montale : N/N son

bye

www.lupidelmontale.it

saschia · 08-07-2011, 16:05

You cannot say dog is N/N from these. You cannot even say for sure dog is N/N if all his offspring after N/DM (or N/N) mother is N/N. You can assume a dog is N/N only if both his parents are certified N/N. The same goes for DM/DM.

You can assume with good certainty that dog is N/DM from the offspring, if you have all kinds of offspring (both N/N or DM/DM), or if you have N/DM dogs from N/N or DM/DM mothers. So to know the results of your dog it is easier to have it tested, rather than test a lot of it's offspring.

Although the genes behave statistically (meaning from N/N x N/DM crossing you should have 50% N/N and 50% N/DM offspring), you cannot say for sure that father (or mother) is N/N, if it produces only N/N puppies, as you are not sure you have tested all it's offspring (not all pups are tested, and maybe some pups died in utero). If after 10 years of producing N/N pups one of the offspring is N/DM, it can invalidate your previous assumptions. Of course this situation is very very improbable, but still not impossible. The more offspring tested you have, the more sure you are, but you can never be 100% sure.

woland77 · 09-07-2011, 15:56

In accordance with the regulations of international accreditation , the CCLC (Italian Club), accepts only the results of each dog, provided by an accredited laboratory. The results of the research institutions, are considered for statistical data and not for the certification of individual dogs (according to international regulations). This is because research institutions are not required to answer about errors on a law context, while the laboratories are obligated to respond on the certificate they issue.
We don't accept result deducted by others test result (even if both parents are n/n).
To provide certification in breeding must have all dogs with results issued by accredited laboratory...
The rest are in an official and legal way, only words!

plume · 08-08-2011, 10:53

Chien : Doxanne du domaine de la combe noire (2008 )
Père : Akaycash Tatra N/N
Mère : Backal du domaine de la combe noire N/N

Résultat Test MD : N/N

plume · 08-08-2011, 10:54

Chien : Cosmo de Mallaucry (2007)
Père : Aron Passo del lupo ??
Mère : Telma Passo del lupo ??

Résultat Test MD : DM/DM

plume · 09-08-2011, 17:58

chrystel38
Junior Member

Date d'inscription: mars 2006
Messages: 34

Les résultats des tests des CLT Combe noire:

LES FILLES

ASTRA Z KOPACKOVA DVORA CZ N/MD
CORA SPOD DIUMBIERA N/MD
ALMONA DE LA MOULINIERE DE LO'SCALE dite "ALPHA" N/MD
CHILI DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/MD
ERIA DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/MD (père extérieur a l’élevage)
CHEYENNE N/N
BACKALDU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N
DAMASKA DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N
ELFENDU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N
CORAIL DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N

LES GARCONS

ECKLAN DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/MD (père extérieur a l’élevage)
AKAY CASH TATRA N/N
VAICKO PASSO DEL LUPO N/N
YENCO DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N
DRYAK DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N
EVER FOREVER DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N

mes résultats ont aussi été envoyé par mail a qui de droit

ce serait bien que tout les éleveurs le fassent,
également pour les chiens qui saillissent a l’extérieur

auryan · 09-08-2011, 20:44

Bis Didi Paraj Auta : N/DM

Sherdor · 09-08-2011, 21:26

En ce qui concerne nos chiens :

Ar'wan MLS : N/DM
Ckaa'loup-bah MLS : N/DM

Les derniers chiots (Ckaa'loup-bah MLS X Voice of Wolf z molu es)

Gader'el ZOO : DM/DM

Gwydion ZOO : N/DM
Gwenn teir Brown ZOO : N/DM
Gwenddid ZOO (dite Apache) : N/DM
Gaia ZOO : N/DM
Girija ZOO (dite Galys) : N/DM

Ganesh ZOO (chiot dcd 10 semaines) : N/N
Gerd ZOO (dite Galka) : N/N

z Peronówki · 16-08-2011, 14:30

Cheitan z Peronówki N/N

yukidomari · 16-08-2011, 20:49

Wintermoon z Lasów Preczowskich - N/N

Vaiva · 16-08-2011, 21:59

Also Waidila and Widmo Girios dvasia are N/N

wolfin · 16-08-2011, 22:21

next Girios dvasia results:
Kerri Girios dvasia N/N
Kaukas Girios dvasia N/N
Biesas Girios dvasia N/N
Lupian Urzo Girios dvasia DM/N

Morian · 16-08-2011, 22:22

fia braterstwo wilczakow - n/n

Tuky · 16-08-2011, 23:24

Kimaris Kay z Peronowki n/DM
Aisha Al-hamra de la Manada de Tuky n/n

and waiting for the rest of his brothers,

I'm very happy

Shadowlands · 17-08-2011, 11:03

We want to breed again this year but with Shadow being N/DM, need to know the male is N/N. So many stud dog owners seem to still be burying their head in the sand and not getting tested (and not doing so if requested!) - to quote one owner "Of the DM test, I think myself not too much, because I look him in the breed population as inconclusive" - and his rates weren't cheap either, the test costs less than he quotes per puppy!!

We are limited in the distance we can travel due to other responsibilities at home and need to also take into consideration the COI of any potential pairing so are getting rather frustrated...

Maybe it would be an idea to have an addition in the stud dog listings to say that the test has been done (show the results only if wanted), that way it would save a lot of time and effort for owners of females who are concientious enough to want their puppies healthy.

If stud dog owners continue to refuse to carry out the test, this disease is only going to proliferate and the outcome for the breed is not good.

Sorry for the rant but I think breeding dog owners need to wake up to the consequences of what they are (or are not) doing...

hanninadina · 17-08-2011, 13:47

How can in one litter be a dog with DM/DM and N/N like Sherdor posted from the same parents?

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...&postcount=311

Please watch the first Garderel and the last dogs Gerd.

Christian

Shadowlands · 17-08-2011, 13:54

If two N/DM dogs breed, they can have puppies of N/N, N/DM and DM/DM (a 25% chance of N/N and DM/DM and 50% of N/DM). He already stated that one parent (Ckaa'loup-bah MLS) is N/DM, so the results show that it is very likely that the other (Voice of Wolf z molu es) also is. The good bit of news from this litter is that only one of the pups is affected (DM/DM), but it could have been more...

08-07-2011, 10:00	#301
BRUCH Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Senigallia (Ancona) Posts: 429	DM test result Chett Maly Bysterec is N/N, whit test Obra Arimminum is N/N, from eligo and ambra all two N/N so all the litter L and N from kennel Lupi del Montale are N/N bye www.lupidelmontale.it

08-07-2011, 10:34	#302
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	I think it would be correct to post results of parents/offspring based on the knowledge of test results of offspring/parents only if parentage tests were performed and positive. Otherwise it is always only assumption and can be easily misused (like the fake pedigrees). Or, in case of widely-used studs (dams) it may be posted, but separately, and saying clearly that these are not results of DNA tests, only assumption. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

08-07-2011, 11:45	#303
GalomyOak Howling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 436	Below is the policy for the OFFA on genetics. Please note, it is ok to list a first generation dog as "clear by parentage" (marked with "CBP" in official results) if both parents have been tested. OFFA will only give this to first generation dogs, recognizing that our science is still limited and mutations are possible. They require testing for the next generations. http://offa.org/cbp.html __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."~Henry David Thoreau http://www.galomyoak.com

08-07-2011, 15:39	#304
BRUCH Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Senigallia (Ancona) Posts: 429	assumption if someone wont to do some assumption of berseker z peronowki: jolly z molu es :N/N mum botis z peronowki :N/N brother ezar del montale : N/N son bye www.lupidelmontale.it

08-07-2011, 16:05	#305
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	You cannot say dog is N/N from these. You cannot even say for sure dog is N/N if all his offspring after N/DM (or N/N) mother is N/N. You can assume a dog is N/N only if both his parents are certified N/N. The same goes for DM/DM. You can assume with good certainty that dog is N/DM from the offspring, if you have all kinds of offspring (both N/N or DM/DM), or if you have N/DM dogs from N/N or DM/DM mothers. So to know the results of your dog it is easier to have it tested, rather than test a lot of it's offspring. Although the genes behave statistically (meaning from N/N x N/DM crossing you should have 50% N/N and 50% N/DM offspring), you cannot say for sure that father (or mother) is N/N, if it produces only N/N puppies, as you are not sure you have tested all it's offspring (not all pups are tested, and maybe some pups died in utero). If after 10 years of producing N/N pups one of the offspring is N/DM, it can invalidate your previous assumptions. Of course this situation is very very improbable, but still not impossible. The more offspring tested you have, the more sure you are, but you can never be 100% sure. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

09-07-2011, 15:56	#306
woland77 Gran figl de putt Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,638	In accordance with the regulations of international accreditation , the CCLC (Italian Club), accepts only the results of each dog, provided by an accredited laboratory. The results of the research institutions, are considered for statistical data and not for the certification of individual dogs (according to international regulations). This is because research institutions are not required to answer about errors on a law context, while the laboratories are obligated to respond on the certificate they issue. We don't accept result deducted by others test result (even if both parents are n/n). To provide certification in breeding must have all dogs with results issued by accredited laboratory... The rest are in an official and legal way, only words! Last edited by woland77; 09-07-2011 at 16:01.

08-08-2011, 10:53	#307
plume Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: nice Posts: 472	Chien : Doxanne du domaine de la combe noire (2008 ) Père : Akaycash Tatra N/N Mère : Backal du domaine de la combe noire N/N Résultat Test MD : N/N

08-08-2011, 10:54	#308
plume Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: nice Posts: 472	Chien : Cosmo de Mallaucry (2007) Père : Aron Passo del lupo ?? Mère : Telma Passo del lupo ?? Résultat Test MD : DM/DM

09-08-2011, 17:58	#309
plume Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: nice Posts: 472	chrystel38 Junior Member Date d'inscription: mars 2006 Messages: 34 Les résultats des tests des CLT Combe noire: LES FILLES ASTRA Z KOPACKOVA DVORA CZ N/MD CORA SPOD DIUMBIERA N/MD ALMONA DE LA MOULINIERE DE LO'SCALE dite "ALPHA" N/MD CHILI DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/MD ERIA DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/MD (père extérieur a l’élevage) CHEYENNE N/N BACKALDU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N DAMASKA DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N ELFENDU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N CORAIL DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N LES GARCONS ECKLAN DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/MD (père extérieur a l’élevage) AKAY CASH TATRA N/N VAICKO PASSO DEL LUPO N/N YENCO DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N DRYAK DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N EVER FOREVER DU DOMAINE DE LA COMBE NOIRE N/N mes résultats ont aussi été envoyé par mail a qui de droit ce serait bien que tout les éleveurs le fassent, également pour les chiens qui saillissent a l’extérieur

09-08-2011, 20:44	#310
auryan Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: 13 Posts: 48	Bis Didi Paraj Auta : N/DM

09-08-2011, 21:26	#311
Sherdor Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,023	En ce qui concerne nos chiens : Ar'wan MLS : N/DM Ckaa'loup-bah MLS : N/DM Les derniers chiots (Ckaa'loup-bah MLS X Voice of Wolf z molu es) Gader'el ZOO : DM/DM Gwydion ZOO : N/DM Gwenn teir Brown ZOO : N/DM Gwenddid ZOO (dite Apache) : N/DM Gaia ZOO : N/DM Girija ZOO (dite Galys) : N/DM Ganesh ZOO (chiot dcd 10 semaines) : N/N Gerd ZOO (dite Galka) : N/N __________________ www.ochrana.fr

16-08-2011, 14:30	#312
z Peronówki VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Późna Posts: 6,996	Cheitan z Peronówki N/N __________________ . 'Z PERONÓWKI' FACEBOOK GROUP

16-08-2011, 20:49	#313
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Wintermoon z Lasów Preczowskich - N/N

16-08-2011, 21:59	#314
Vaiva ir Brukne Join Date: May 2006 Location: Vilnius Posts: 1,768	Also Waidila and Widmo Girios dvasia are N/N __________________ Walkiria Girios dvasia

16-08-2011, 22:21	#315
wolfin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Where the wolf lives Posts: 6,095	next Girios dvasia results: Kerri Girios dvasia N/N Kaukas Girios dvasia N/N Biesas Girios dvasia N/N Lupian Urzo Girios dvasia DM/N __________________

16-08-2011, 22:22	#316
Morian Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: USSR Posts: 2,047	fia braterstwo wilczakow - n/n __________________

16-08-2011, 23:24	#317
Tuky Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cadiz Posts: 294	Kimaris Kay z Peronowki n/DM Aisha Al-hamra de la Manada de Tuky n/n and waiting for the rest of his brothers, I'm very happy __________________ solo con los lobos se aprende a aullar

17-08-2011, 11:03	#318
Shadowlands Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vidin Posts: 391	We want to breed again this year but with Shadow being N/DM, need to know the male is N/N. So many stud dog owners seem to still be burying their head in the sand and not getting tested (and not doing so if requested!) - to quote one owner "Of the DM test, I think myself not too much, because I look him in the breed population as inconclusive" - and his rates weren't cheap either, the test costs less than he quotes per puppy!! We are limited in the distance we can travel due to other responsibilities at home and need to also take into consideration the COI of any potential pairing so are getting rather frustrated... Maybe it would be an idea to have an addition in the stud dog listings to say that the test has been done (show the results only if wanted), that way it would save a lot of time and effort for owners of females who are concientious enough to want their puppies healthy. If stud dog owners continue to refuse to carry out the test, this disease is only going to proliferate and the outcome for the breed is not good. Sorry for the rant but I think breeding dog owners need to wake up to the consequences of what they are (or are not) doing...

17-08-2011, 13:47	#319
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	How can in one litter be a dog with DM/DM and N/N like Sherdor posted from the same parents? http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...&postcount=311 Please watch the first Garderel and the last dogs Gerd. Christian

17-08-2011, 13:54	#320
Shadowlands Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vidin Posts: 391	If two N/DM dogs breed, they can have puppies of N/N, N/DM and DM/DM (a 25% chance of N/N and DM/DM and 50% of N/DM). He already stated that one parent (Ckaa'loup-bah MLS) is N/DM, so the results show that it is very likely that the other (Voice of Wolf z molu es) also is. The good bit of news from this litter is that only one of the pups is affected (DM/DM), but it could have been more...