British Kennel Club Recognition - Page 14

happyfeet · 25-09-2011, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Well, if it is who I think it may be - he lied

His wife has just posted on FB that the male is going to be neutered (no indication of when), yet he stated that this had already been done.

Why can't people be honest and open in their dealings with breeders - it is no wonder that the suspicion lingers over enquiries from the UK

Aww..perhaps if you,d asked the gentleman in question instead of presuming..im
On his FB and you would know that his male had a medical problem
And they had to reschedule this opp, shame you prefer to make
Such comments and its his sister!!! You see not his wife who
Doesnt have facebook..ive advised him to join, the fact is still his dog would be
Newted before his new addition comes.

Wouldnt like to see him miss represented as he is a really
Nice bloke...hope that clears your concerns christine!

happyfeet · 25-09-2011, 19:41

not wanting to butt in Christine, however it was rather unfair to give out incorrect information and divert the thread back to old and incorect news! especially when it was all looking positive and forum members were pulling together.

not having understanding this FC1 stuff although my girl is registered out of UK and spayed!! can she be of any assistance, I may be a novice to this site but having owned this breed in and out of the uk for over 10 years I may be of some help.. bit long in the tooth for forum stuff!! but may be of help in other ways as i am a mere owner and not breeder!

cheers

my names matthew if that helps you address me!

Shadowlands · 25-09-2011, 20:03

I really am not bothered what your name is

I have not written anything false - what makes you think we are talking about the same person anyway?

happyfeet · 25-09-2011, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

I really am not bothered what your name is

I have not written anything false - what makes you think we are talking about the same person anyway?

Because I have seen your emails and correspondance with the said person and also a friend on the same page you have seen the post small old world eh. I just think its only fair to comment with the full facts and yes you have given false info calling him a liar which he is not and his 'wife' who actually his sister its laughable really. but also very wrong to mis quote

I address you as christine but is it sadie? I am confused? Its such a shame you continue this on each thread and it irritated me enough to correct you.

if you post on a thread are you asking for a reply or is it just informational, I thought forums were for chat and reply? perhaps you dont like being corrected although I did try to reframe but felt It was a we bit unfair of you to share incorrect info IMO

AMERICANI · 25-09-2011, 23:19

Just having to hear about (much less deal with) unscrupulous @$$-clowns is really gut wrenching. In a way I'm happy I am not the only person who has encountered this type of person wanting our dogs, but I also sympathize all of you who are trying to do all we can for the benefit of the breed while simultaneously keeping our eyes open for these types. My best wishes for the intelligence to outweigh the ignorance of lawmakers and/or breed club officials in the UK...

Shadowlands · 26-09-2011, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

Just having to hear about (much less deal with) unscrupulous @$$-clowns is really gut wrenching. In a way I'm happy I am not the only person who has encountered this type of person wanting our dogs, but I also sympathize all of you who are trying to do all we can for the benefit of the breed while simultaneously keeping our eyes open for these types. My best wishes for the intelligence to outweigh the ignorance of lawmakers and/or breed club officials in the UK...

Americani, Thank you from all of us who care xx

To everyone else, I posted the above as a warning to others that there are still unscrupulous people out there and that this is what we are trying to change. As everyone has been agreeing, trust is what is needed and this is a prime example of deceit in work. Luckily no pure puppy from Europe ended up in this situation (they have a UK bred one now), but breeders in Europe, and the lovers of the breed doing great work in the UK, need to be cautious. Trust is difficult to earn and easy to lose, and unfortunately the bad actions of the few seem to have a more lasting effect than the good actions of the many.

Keep up all the great work getting the club organised and - eventually - getting KC recognition.

Shadowlands · 26-09-2011, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyfeet

Because I have seen your emails and correspondance with the said person and also a friend on the same page you have seen the post small old world eh. I just think its only fair to comment with the full facts and yes you have given false info calling him a liar but also very wrong to mis quote

if you post on a thread are you asking for a reply or is it just informational, I thought forums were for chat and reply? perhaps you dont like being corrected although I did try to reframe but felt It was a we bit unfair of you to share incorrect info IMO

If you really have seen the emails, you will know I am telling the truth (as it was put to me) and that I was very supportive towards 'said person' - who, I notice, you choose NOT to name and shame but seem to take great delight in doing it to those with whom you disagree

- so, forgive me if I am a little upset to discover that I - and others on here - have been blatently lied too.

This is my last correspondence on here with you - please stop using threatening behaviour towards others and get your facts straight in the future before you open your mouth.

Thank you.

Nebulosa · 26-09-2011, 08:57

Vaiva had let clear before that the "said person" is reading this topic, if someone is telling a lie he can register here and reply personaly, anyway it's mainly of his interess to convince Vaiva (and others breeders) that he is an reliable person to have a pup from her breeding.

This topic is a bit important to UK, as I could see here there are some problems for the future UK breeders and also the "breed lovers" to solve, if he really wants to breed pure CzW we expect him to at least help with it.

Tassle · 26-09-2011, 10:46

I agree that things need to be done sooner rather than later.

Maybe a core group of people who own a pure could get together and throw some idea around, including how to deal with the dogs already here (DNA profiling ect)
Maybe draft some correspondence to people already producing and who also own pure, stating the intentions of setting up a breed club, what specifications would be put in place for joining and a Code of ethics.

Due to how difficult it is for people to meet up, possibly a Yahoo group (private) could be set up to throw emails about, then when you have something down that everyone agrees with, things can be sent to the relevant parties and possibly meet from there?

I Am not sure how it works with breed clubs, but I think (under the law) you have to have 6 people to form a committee? (Or is that just if you have paying members?)

I guess the alternative is contacting DEFRA and the KC and finding out what was in place? Or the people who had set it up with the KC in the first place?

AMERICANI · 26-09-2011, 18:45

Is it really, HONESTLY, possible to be that naive to think it is OK to cross breed wolves into pure CsV's to make better CsV's?? Lets say I am breeding Beagles.... How in the hell am I going to think I have made the breed any better by making a mutt? It isn't OK...Plain and simple... Then there is the fact that anything including "wolf blood" is going to catch a small share of negative attention. To countries who are new to CsV's, this is a slap in the face of any potential, positive, attention to our breed.

tupacs2legs · 26-09-2011, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

Is it really, HONESTLY, possible to be that naive to think it is OK to cross breed wolves into pure CsV's to make better CsV's?? Lets say I am breeding Beagles.... How in the hell am I going to think I have made the breed any better by making a mutt? It isn't OK...Plain and simple... Then there is the fact that anything including "wolf blood" is going to catch a small share of negative attention. To countries who are new to CsV's, this is a slap in the face of any potential, positive, attention to our breed.

its a statement that is used as an excuse to cross by people that do not know the first thing about the breed 'csv'

it could go both ways though,hopefully if the breed is recognised people will realise they are a domestic dog breed and not a pet wolf and the 'interest' of these numptys will dwindle...hopefully...maybe?

hedeon · 26-09-2011, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

Is it really, HONESTLY, possible to be that naive to think it is OK to cross breed wolves into pure CsV's to make better CsV's?? Lets say I am breeding Beagles.... How in the hell am I going to think I have made the breed any better by making a mutt? It isn't OK...Plain and simple... Then there is the fact that anything including "wolf blood" is going to catch a small share of negative attention. To countries who are new to CsV's, this is a slap in the face of any potential, positive, attention to our breed.

I think there is a documentary movie which can explain many of cross breeding excuses. Some time ago BBC have made a film "pedigree dogs exposed" which kind of shocked people in UK, and made Kennel Club to loose a lot of public respect. Basically, movie is about genetics problems and sicknesses of pedigree dogs in UK, caused by inbreeding. Public was terrified and shocked. So I imagine some breeders started to use a "care for breed, and health of dogs" as a excuse to cross. It could make good impression on shocked public, and put breeder in glory of animal lover. Problem is CSV ie relatively new breed, and from very beginning breeders are aware of problems caused by inbreeding. In fact CSV is one of healthiest dog breeds.

Link to movie (1 hour long):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhXHFOrBbEc

Murph · 26-09-2011, 19:24

Most constructive post so far by tassle. There can always be another thread of crossing but how about moving forward from here with regard to the title of the thread?

Nebulosa · 26-09-2011, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedeon

Video os Pedigree dogs exposed

We did have problems with the dog breeding here because of this video too.

People start to use it as an excuse to mix dogs, by us it was almost fatal, because really bad breeders as people who only wanted to show "the miracle of life" to their child and win some money with the selling of the pups found on this video an excuse to mate and breed mongrels.

yet we have people who use this video as support to make the things wrong pretending to be ethical, but breeders and principally owners gathered in an campaing explaining about "how wrong it this video according to our reality" or "according to the reality of the specific breed" at some of ours most well known internet spots for dog lovers.

CzW is an very unknown breed, tends to be easy work with the conscientization explaining that with CzW the situation is different and that mix dogs will only helps to ruin the breed also in health.

You have how to proof showing how many ills has been already found at the breed only because it does have GSD at its blood and how many new and unknown illness the addition of a new breed would bring.

Tazer · 26-09-2011, 20:30

oh god, not that bloody documentary again. *Sighs* and to think she's making a sequel.

Considering the woman responsible for it:

Blamed the kc and dog showing community for what was wrong, but used dogs as examples that were neither shown or kc registered.

Used an imported gsd as an example of unethical English show dog breeding.

Admitted to edditing the interviews in order to make it look like certain people were saying things they weren't.

Refused to include interviews with certain breeders/breed clubs because it would portray pedegree dog breeders/the dog showing community in a positive light. Clearly she wasn't interested in giving people a balanced view.

Made absolutely no reference to puppy farms/mills and byb's, who are the people most likely to produce unhealthy, untypical examples of breeds, with little or no thought.

Wasted a brilliant oppertunity to raise some important issues and fairly educate the public, in favour of sensationalism.

Gave the puppy farmers and bybs a brilliant marketing ploy for their mass produced littrs, pure and cross breed alike.

I don't think I'll be payng much attention to what ever she has to say next, unless she can prove she didnt in anyway, eddit, missrepresent the evidence or down right lie about the subject.

Taz

AMERICANI · 27-09-2011, 02:03

This is amazing information, perhaps we should begin gathering up all of the mentally handicapped and burn them alive for being witches...

Some very important / valid key issues are brought up in this video, but you must have the proper paradigm to make efficient use of it. 500+ health problems brought about by inbreeding

. Look carefully at these breeds!

. Look into their history; at the time most of these breeds were being developed, inbreeding was also being practiced by royalties... Humans did not know they were causing such horrible issues until the 19th century! Our breed is young! Respectable / responsible breeding will give us a fighting chance at producing healthy dogs. When someone tracks and periodically tests various members throughout a pack of wolves for a generation or so, then you may just produce a wolf which may help our breed. We have enough diversity to only breed the strong and healthy, and adjust (only if needed) the standard. Our standard is "roomy" for selective breeding already. Every day, new genetic tests are being developed! We have the ability to utilize these wonderful tools to do wonderful things in regards to selective breeding, but we need more responsible breeders than all of those "TOP BREEDERS" on this video who said it was "rubbish"

when these problems were brought to their attention..

When I was about 3 or 4 years old, my parents bred Beagles.. Epilepsy was a terrible problem with my dad's female... I use this as motivation to do the right thing!

pixie · 28-09-2011, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassle

I agree that things need to be done sooner rather than later.

Maybe a core group of people who own a pure could get together and throw some idea around, including how to deal with the dogs already here (DNA profiling ect)
Maybe draft some correspondence to people already producing and who also own pure, stating the intentions of setting up a breed club, what specifications would be put in place for joining and a Code of ethics.

Due to how difficult it is for people to meet up, possibly a Yahoo group (private) could be set up to throw emails about, then when you have something down that everyone agrees with, things can be sent to the relevant parties and possibly meet from there?

I Am not sure how it works with breed clubs, but I think (under the law) you have to have 6 people to form a committee? (Or is that just if you have paying members?)

I guess the alternative is contacting DEFRA and the KC and finding out what was in place? Or the people who had set it up with the KC in the first place?

whatever way we need to do it soon

tupacs2legs · 28-09-2011, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixie

whatever way we need to do it soon

well really,we need to wait for a reply to hedeons email to the kc.... will know where we stand and a bit more of what needs to be done.(mind u they never answered me a year ago

)

hedeon · 28-09-2011, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

well really,we need to wait for a reply to hedeons email to the kc.... will know where we stand and a bit more of what needs to be done.(mind u they never answered me a year ago

)

Well, I have received a reply, a bit strange... According to KC, CSV wasn't registered with KC before. Or in 2002. Any way I will quote evertyhing

My email

Quote:

Hello Caroline,

hope you are all right.
Thank you for your reply regarding breed recognition, but yet another question comes to my mind. How does it look like in situation where Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (CSV) was originally recognized by Kennel Club in 2002, but was removed from recognized breeds list in 2003 when DEFRA given the breed the status of 'Dangerous Wild Animal'. DEFRA revised their decision in 2008 removing CSV from 'Dangerous Wild Animal' act as " any dog 3 or more generations removed from pure wolf now no longer comes under the Dangerous Wild Animals act and therefore no longer needs a special licence to keep", but CSV have never come back on Kennel Club list. Does in this case whole process of breed recognition has to happen all over again?

And her reply:

Quote:

Thank you for your further email. It appears that you have been misinformed, as the Kennel Club did not recognize the breed in 2002.

We hope that this clarifies the situation for you.

Yours sincerely
Caroline Hallett
Registered Societies Manager

Is someone not telling the truth?

pixie · 28-09-2011, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

well really,we need to wait for a reply to hedeons email to the kc.... will know where we stand and a bit more of what needs to be done.(mind u they never answered me a year ago

)

that is the problem, if we can get a group together and forward the names of the dogs with pedigrees to he kennel club, and start to make noises so they know we are not going away they may possibly answer. I doubt it but we have to try, I just believe less people will mix if we are KC registered, as then potential new owners wont be looking at 98% csv 2% whatever, because they will want the KC reistration papers

25-09-2011, 23:19	#265
AMERICANI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 111	Just having to hear about (much less deal with) unscrupulous @$$-clowns is really gut wrenching. In a way I'm happy I am not the only person who has encountered this type of person wanting our dogs, but I also sympathize all of you who are trying to do all we can for the benefit of the breed while simultaneously keeping our eyes open for these types. My best wishes for the intelligence to outweigh the ignorance of lawmakers and/or breed club officials in the UK... Last edited by AMERICANI; 26-09-2011 at 00:10. Reason: missing information

26-09-2011, 08:57	#268
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Vaiva had let clear before that the "said person" is reading this topic, if someone is telling a lie he can register here and reply personaly, anyway it's mainly of his interess to convince Vaiva (and others breeders) that he is an reliable person to have a pup from her breeding. This topic is a bit important to UK, as I could see here there are some problems for the future UK breeders and also the "breed lovers" to solve, if he really wants to breed pure CzW we expect him to at least help with it. __________________ Last edited by Nebulosa; 26-09-2011 at 09:00.

26-09-2011, 18:45	#270
AMERICANI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 111	X-breeding Is it really, HONESTLY, possible to be that naive to think it is OK to cross breed wolves into pure CsV's to make better CsV's?? Lets say I am breeding Beagles.... How in the hell am I going to think I have made the breed any better by making a mutt? It isn't OK...Plain and simple... Then there is the fact that anything including "wolf blood" is going to catch a small share of negative attention. To countries who are new to CsV's, this is a slap in the face of any potential, positive, attention to our breed.

26-09-2011, 20:30	#275
Tazer Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 77	oh god, not that bloody documentary again. Sighs and to think she's making a sequel. Considering the woman responsible for it: Blamed the kc and dog showing community for what was wrong, but used dogs as examples that were neither shown or kc registered. Used an imported gsd as an example of unethical English show dog breeding. Admitted to edditing the interviews in order to make it look like certain people were saying things they weren't. Refused to include interviews with certain breeders/breed clubs because it would portray pedegree dog breeders/the dog showing community in a positive light. Clearly she wasn't interested in giving people a balanced view. Made absolutely no reference to puppy farms/mills and byb's, who are the people most likely to produce unhealthy, untypical examples of breeds, with little or no thought. Wasted a brilliant oppertunity to raise some important issues and fairly educate the public, in favour of sensationalism. Gave the puppy farmers and bybs a brilliant marketing ploy for their mass produced littrs, pure and cross breed alike. I don't think I'll be payng much attention to what ever she has to say next, unless she can prove she didnt in anyway, eddit, missrepresent the evidence or down right lie about the subject. Taz __________________ Never argue with idiots. they drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

27-09-2011, 02:03	#276
AMERICANI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 111	wow This is amazing information, perhaps we should begin gathering up all of the mentally handicapped and burn them alive for being witches... Some very important / valid key issues are brought up in this video, but you must have the proper paradigm to make efficient use of it. 500+ health problems brought about by inbreeding. Look carefully at these breeds!. Look into their history; at the time most of these breeds were being developed, inbreeding was also being practiced by royalties... Humans did not know they were causing such horrible issues until the 19th century! Our breed is young! Respectable / responsible breeding will give us a fighting chance at producing healthy dogs. When someone tracks and periodically tests various members throughout a pack of wolves for a generation or so, then you may just produce a wolf which may help our breed. We have enough diversity to only breed the strong and healthy, and adjust (only if needed) the standard. Our standard is "roomy" for selective breeding already. Every day, new genetic tests are being developed! We have the ability to utilize these wonderful tools to do wonderful things in regards to selective breeding, but we need more responsible breeders than all of those "TOP BREEDERS" on this video who said it was "rubbish" when these problems were brought to their attention.. When I was about 3 or 4 years old, my parents bred Beagles.. Epilepsy was a terrible problem with my dad's female... I use this as motivation to do the right thing! Last edited by AMERICANI; 27-09-2011 at 02:09.

25-09-2011, 19:41	#262
happyfeet Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: on a farm Posts: 78	not wanting to butt in Christine, however it was rather unfair to give out incorrect information and divert the thread back to old and incorect news! especially when it was all looking positive and forum members were pulling together. not having understanding this FC1 stuff although my girl is registered out of UK and spayed!! can she be of any assistance, I may be a novice to this site but having owned this breed in and out of the uk for over 10 years I may be of some help.. bit long in the tooth for forum stuff!! but may be of help in other ways as i am a mere owner and not breeder! cheers my names matthew if that helps you address me!

25-09-2011, 20:03	#263
Shadowlands Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vidin Posts: 391	I really am not bothered what your name is I have not written anything false - what makes you think we are talking about the same person anyway?

26-09-2011, 10:46	#269
Tassle Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall Posts: 137	I agree that things need to be done sooner rather than later. Maybe a core group of people who own a pure could get together and throw some idea around, including how to deal with the dogs already here (DNA profiling ect) Maybe draft some correspondence to people already producing and who also own pure, stating the intentions of setting up a breed club, what specifications would be put in place for joining and a Code of ethics. Due to how difficult it is for people to meet up, possibly a Yahoo group (private) could be set up to throw emails about, then when you have something down that everyone agrees with, things can be sent to the relevant parties and possibly meet from there? I Am not sure how it works with breed clubs, but I think (under the law) you have to have 6 people to form a committee? (Or is that just if you have paying members?) I guess the alternative is contacting DEFRA and the KC and finding out what was in place? Or the people who had set it up with the KC in the first place?

26-09-2011, 19:24	#273
Murph Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 54	Most constructive post so far by tassle. There can always be another thread of crossing but how about moving forward from here with regard to the title of the thread?