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Upbringing & character How to care for a puppy, how to socialize it, the most common problems with CzW, how to solve them.... |
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13-06-2003, 07:43 | #21 |
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Trouble with my dog
I think you should treat your dog the way you (should) treat your kid!
Have lots of patience and be consequent in your actions. Let them now you're the boss and they can depend on you. And even in wolf behaviour it is normal to correct the ones who do wrong. Dogs need to know who is the boss (the alfa) and just as kids they are always trying you out, trying to find a tiny slip in comment, waiting to take over. :0) Cindy. |
13-06-2003, 10:47 | #22 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 50
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Trouble with my dog
Hi Karin and all,
my answer was based on dogs' behavioural studies and the recommendations I gave really work. It is perfectly normal for a DOG not to be greeted enthusiastically from the ALPHA of the pack. Submissive members of the wolf pack greet the alpha - but the alpha does not greet them back the same way. And again, it is normal for a DOG that you as "the alpha" can come and go as you please. The submissive canine members of your pack don't need any explanations or big emotions. The dog won't "think" that you don't like him if you just ignore it these times. The dog will realize that you understand its language and begins to respect you as a leader of its pack. And there is even more into that: With separation anxiety many dogs' behavioural consultants speculate that the dog that is showing s.a. symptoms do actually act like the alpha. The dog tries to control your goings and comings and doesn't feel comfortable when you are alone away. The dog is going crazy just like a mother would if her small children were somewhere out alone maybe lost. I have 3 dogs (2 CsWs and 1 CsW x Saarloos cross) and only my male dog has had all extreme symptoms of separation anxiety (howling, destroying everything, peeing and doing the big job too); he is also the most dominant one of them. Karin asked if I have already solved this problem. Yes I have, he stays generally in a kennel while alone - and no damage has been done anymore. But he has also been alone (with my other dogs) in hotelroom without destroying anything (god, I was afraid) for a short time couple of times. I think that he is getting better and better but I still can't totally trust him. There is quite an easy way of finding out if your dog is having separation anxiety or if it is just chewing things because it is bored. If the dog has s.a, the dog begins to pee, defecate, howl, hyperventilate and/or destroy things right after its owner has left the home and it normally doesn't eat or drink. If the dog is just bored it begins to destroy thing later (and should not have these other symptoms at all). And dogs that have separation anxiety get extremely nervous when they notice that their owner is about to leave them alone. And Cindy, I believe that we should treat dogs like dogs and not like children (because they don't undestand human behaviour that perfectly - they will get confused). Dogs have learnd a lot of our language and behavior and normally no big damage is done if we treat them like children - that shows how flexible they really are; but it might be a good idea that we too would make an effort and learn to understand their language and behaviour better (there are so many good books and behavioural experts). Minna |
13-06-2003, 16:08 | #23 | |
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Trouble with my dog
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do a bit of deeper thinking too I even shared my thoughts, and a few of your lines, with my list group. I hope you don't mind. Please feel free to look for yourself http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STM-Tr...?yguid=3854678 |
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15-06-2003, 12:37 | #24 |
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Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 13
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Trouble with my dog
Hi again
Your describtion on how to solve my problems, sounds more like the way I've learned to do it So far I've tried almost everything, except the car box, which I will get very soon, but nothing has helped. But she is still very young (4 months) so maybe it'll get better over time. I am of my studies (summer vacation) for the next month, so I have lots of time to train with her, so I hope, I will see some progress there There has been a bit progress, but after a few days, everything goes back to her normal behaviour... Can't really understand why, since there has been no change in our daily routine. Thank you to you all, for inputs to my problem. Regards, Deborah |
15-06-2003, 12:47 | #25 | ||||
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Trouble with my dog
Thank you very much for your email.
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her by, won't allow us, to go untill she is 4 months old - and she is that today So next week I'll start. Untill now, I've done my best to train her, and it she has been ndoing quite allright, she seems very bright, a quick learner. Quote:
Btw she does not only urinated, but also shit (-sorry don't know the nice English word for that action ) Quote:
the destroying after 4-5 hours... Quote:
I would love to explain the full details, but my English knowlegde is very limited, so I often find it very hard to explain, I love when I get emails like this, 'cause then I'll just have to answer questions You would help me a lot, If you could tell me what I have left out, a lot to ask, but just give me a clue, and I'll be there. Again, thank you all very much, for trying to help me out. Deborah |
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16-06-2003, 04:43 | #26 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Trouble with my dog
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You are welcome! Well I got some of the answers already, leaving less questions... But here are a couple. I don't understand the situation at night, you say that the dog has acess to the garden in case of an emergency, what exactly do you mean? Is there a doggy-door and fenced area? ...I guess I just don't know the situation, but if I were you, with a pup so young, I would REALLY try to get the dog to hold what they have to do untill morning. I used a crate with my last dog (the first dog I have fully trained, because I am only 18 and have not yet had a full life of dogs yet!). I would take her out really late before we went to bed, and let her out fairly early to go, and then right back into the crate. Eventually she got up later and later, and now she can sleep all morning without a problem. If you give a dog access to a place to go ALL the time, they get the idea that they don't HAVE to hold it in, and they do not learn HOW to hold it in! It makes a big difference having a dog penned off, or crated for the night. What kind of 'outdoor' scedual is the dog on? Dogs learn a set time of when to do something and when they are going to have a certain action happen. Like the time you leave in the morning, and when you return. I know some people have already touched on this, but to pay less attention to the dog when you leave and come home really can make a difference. I personally have never tried this method, because when I come home, the first thing I want to do is roll around on the floor with a couple of happy dogs!! So when my girl started destroying things, along with yelling at her for doing it (everyone advises NOT to do this, but from experience I swear by it!), I would also just let her out and bring her right back in wehn she was done doing what she had to do. When she didn't destroy anything, I would pet her and play with her, and go outside and have her 'tennis ball time' which she just LOVES. About half an hour of playing fetch with her favorite toy, and she was quickly broken of the destroying habbit. I went by the 'rules' for awhile, but needed to change them because they were not working. Everything people say not to do, ended up working well in this situation and the house-breaking too! All I can really say is, do what you think is right in training the dog. Their are some good methods, but they will not work for every person or every dog. If one does not work, try another! Most cannot hurt too much! ) Good luck with your pup! I am sure as she grows out of her puppieness, she will be a good dog. My obedience trainer said that the magic age for a dog is 2 years. After that everything just sort of 'clicks', and with my young dog I realize that is just about the case! She has gotten so much better at about 1 1/2 years, and she has been acting like the absolutely perfect dog! She is a therapy dog, and a carting dog, and I think when you do so much training with a dog, that is really what will end up being the best thing for them. ~Silver Dragon~ |
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17-06-2003, 08:20 | #27 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 13
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Trouble with my dog
Hi again, I'll answer the best I can, and thank you for helping me out.
I understand most English but it is a bit hard 'just to talk' without knowing exactly what to say... Quote:
through our door, at daytime, in case she really has to go, and I'm not there to talk her for a walk. In the nighttime there's really nothing to do Quote:
outside singlehanded, if she really needs to, and that's why I got confused since she chose to do her business inside our house. Quote:
thing until half an an hour after returning. - She's getting better and better at that point. Now's she's just excited, she no longer jumps up and down, peeping and so. Normally I talk her for a short walk when I get up from bed after being dressed. (It here needs to bed said, that I only sleep about 6 hours a night, so she won't have to wait 10 hours from her evening walk for me to get up again) Then a half hour walk an hour-to half an hour before leaving, so she has time to cool down. Then she get's a long walk when I've returned from the university, and again just before suppertime, we usually walk around in the forest for an hour or so, sometimes we 'miss' the woods, but then I'll just take her for ar bit shorter walk somewhere else. Just before bed, I've been trying to walk the same tour every night, so that she can learn, that when we go like that, it's bedtime and she has to do her business. It has really helped. For a week now (the time I've been practising it) she hasn't had any troubles keeping it in. She has shown great progrees in not to be peeing everywhere, but there still is some troubles. Eg. right before typing this mail, I heard her peeing for a very short time and then I copuld hear her pee... I took a walk with her only half an hour earlier.. It is things like that, which confuses, and to be honest, irretates me a bit, because I can't understand why. But, I still try mu best not to be angry or use bodylanguage that tells her that I am. I still believe, that positive learning is the only way of learning She still destroys a bit, but the damage is minimal. For one thing, I know keep her in my bathroom with all her favourite toys and a nice bone. The rest of the day, I just make sure that nothing is inside of dogreach The trouble is, that our house is in two (stores? - is that the correct word, I mean the word you use, when you have both a first and a second floor... - hope you guys understand) so when I'm upstairs to email you all for an example, she has every chance of being destructive without me never knowing untill I get down and it's too late. But it is going better and better. Now she's just eating and destroying everything that even looks like food - and paper - and tobacco of some reason... But it sound worse than it is, I am actually quite proud of her. Since the day my husband said, enough is enough, there hasn't been the problems which couldn't be handled from time to time. the only thing in which she hasn't shown progress yet, is concerning the biting in people and clothes... She does not bite hard or anything, she just does it all the time, even though I correct her each and every time. But I guess it will come over time. She is still very excited when she sees children. Even though she's still a very yound pup, I have troubles in holding her, but that to is getting better, since the kids now have known her for a while, and find her a bit less interesting - then there's no longer the big 'hello-scenes' from their side, so I think that'll get better to. Unfortunately I do not know any kids, besides my siplings, which aren't very good at saying "don't" when the dog jumps up at them and so. My husbands siplings aren't doing very well at that either, guess there should be a new class in their school 'how to act and behave around animals'... Most kids could certainly use it And btw a tip you probably all, already know... I've heard the advise of giving the dog a T-shirt you've been wearing when you have to leave it or you go to sleep, several times, but never really followed it (don't know why I havn't); My dog normally sleeps beneath my bed, and I put my clothes on a chair right next to the bed. Every morning that I see that she hasn't destroyed anything, she has, funy enough, stolen one of my T-shirts and has been sleeping quite calmly on it all night. So it really looks like it works, and since I wouldn't give her a T-shirt, she had to take one for herself She has never been destroying any clothes yet... and I hope she keeps it that way The CsW I had, ate my panties all the time, even when I had put them in a certain basket where I keep my laundry, she could find and destroy them. Then I got a box, that she couldn't open, and kept my panties in there - then she just took my bra's instead... crazy dog That's all for now... All the best to you all, Deborah |
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17-06-2003, 08:47 | #28 | |||||
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Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 13
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Trouble with my dog
Sorry for the late answer to this mail... Of some reason your mails alway
lay in the bottom of my mailbox... usually I do not look their, cause there should only be 'old' emails. Sorry... Quote:
really bad when I'm angry with her and let her know so. I couldn't dream of yell of her, I just talk to her in an angry tone, but sometimes it happens that she peeps... Quote:
(he's a computer engineer, say's it all doesn't it ) so when he spends time with the dog, he doesn't act the way I've learned the dog that we do. More sadly is the thing, that my husband and I act quite different in almost every aspect of the dogs life... I've been trying to tell him what's right and not, and he has been listening and learning quite well, but all of you in realationships know, that your partner only 'allows' you to correct him or her, a certain number of times before they get angry and feel unuseful... Quote:
then... I do not think either, that she's suffering from seperation anxiety.. 'cause she does not show any other signs than destroying and peeing and so.. She is not nervous at all when I'm about to leave, she gets a bit exited, because I get dressed - she know that that action also means a walk in the forest I've now been trying to get dressed, and then stay inside and then take my clothes of again, so she doesn't necssesarely connect being dresses and to get a walk with each other. Quote:
CsW... so it not like I don't like dogs or that I seperate them from me and my familys life. BUT, I do think, that a dog is mainly still a wolf, and I wanna raise it that way, not ignoring the wolfpart. And as I've learned the alfa never greets the rest of the pack, as an earlier email on this topic informed us as well. That's why I don't think that my ignorance when leaving and returning, has caused the problem. The leaving and returning has so far went pretty much without troubles. Quote:
you around when she hasn't yet learned the "stay"-command? She normally does not follow me around, but some days are worse than others... Regards, Deborah |
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17-06-2003, 14:44 | #29 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 50
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Trouble with my dog
Hi Deborah and all,
now after reading this new description of your dogs behaviour it sounds like he is just a normal puppy and you too don't sound that desperate anymore. You told us that you had a CsV that used to eate you panties and even bras. My male CsV (yes, the same one who also has had separation anxiety) also does this. And this is not only crazy; it is also dangerous. He already once had an intestinal blockage after he had swallowed my bra and he had to be operated. It was a big and expensive surgery and he could have died. Now, when I see that he has swallowed something not suitabel, I give him some salt directly into his throat and then he will vomit everything out. Lately he has been much better also with this "crazy habit" of his but I must take care taht I don't leave my underwear anywhere where he could get them ... I know this sounds very funny, but actually it isn't ... Minna |
18-06-2003, 18:20 | #30 | ||||||
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Trouble with my dog
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them follow you everywhere, in this situation I couldn't disagree more! If you KNOW the dog is in a position where she can destroy things, remove them from it! Sometimes it is just that simple. Take the dog with you out of the room they otherwise would be left in. A fairly new training tecnique (have not had to try it), is when you are just doing what you have to do around the house, have the dog attached to a leash that is looped around your waist or belt. The dog will be forced to watch you, and pay attention to you, other than do whatever else she wants to do! Only do it for a little while at a time (maybe 10 minutes at first, once or twice a day, then up to 20 minutes once they get used to it). It is just an excersise to get them to pay attention to YOU. But if you do not like that idea, do NOT leave them in a room unattended if you know or suspect that the dog will do something wrong. Or if you do, make sure you are right there to correct the behavior as SOON as it happens! Quote:
(like a mother or littermate would) and turn away as soon as the dog bites. Not only are YOU going to do this, but everyone else around the dog. It will soon catch on that it cannot bite because it will not play, and it has upset you. I cannot stress enough how well this works! Quote:
when a stranger or anyone really, is approaching you, have the dog trained to sit in a heel position when it is greeted. The dog will want to get up, just through strong corrections and positive rewards, the dog will learn that it will have to sit and be good to be greeted by others. If you want information on how to train this step-by-step, I will be more than happy to share, just let me know! Quote:
dogs, most people have not the slightest clue how to act around and properly care for a dog, and it is amazing how many of them HAVE dogs!!! I think dog/animal care should be a required course, and I would be more than happy to teach it! ;o) Quote:
cloths, if only for now to lay on... it could progress to destroying, or destroying things to get AT the cloths, if they are not on hand. Plus I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to wake up to a dog hair covered shirt, I have to at least go all day before it gets covered! ) Going to paste info from the other message here: Quote:
marshmellow things at easter time)... so I will assume you mean pees. If a dog pees while you are yelling at it, or when greeting you, it is a very high submission act. The dog wants you to know that 'you are right' and 'you are boss, I know'. Do NOT yell at a dog for submissive peeing!!! The dog will NOT understand! If you have real problems with this, you are going to have to build the dog's confidence a bit, and because I have not yet had an overly submissive dog (Ivy is very submisive, but not nearly that much), I would not know the best methods to go around training this. And one more thing mentioned is if the dog does pee 'on purpose'. If the dog DOES do it on pourpose there are a few methods of realising this. That would be 'marking' different areas of the house, or if the dog comes over infront of you and just starts peeing. If it does pee infront of you like this, it just wants attention. Even by yelling at it, she will recieve attention that it is looking for, ignore the dog under any and all circumstances!! If it keeps up there would be other methods of correcting it. Hope this has helped some. If you have more questions or need more information, just let me know I would be happy to help with what I can! Good luck! ~Silver Dragon~ |
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18-06-2003, 22:43 | #31 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 13
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Trouble with my dog
Hi again
I think I'll try out the new training method you told me about, if she does not keep up the good work. Right now she doing pretty good, and I hope the rest will work out bu training and the fact that she's getting older Quote:
but it hasn't worked yet. I've tried not to be too naive and stop my corrections (I've heard that's the worst you can do in that situation) but kept doing it. Normally she stops for a few days, and then she begins again, like everything else... she shows progress, I get happy, but are still training, and then she sets everything back to the bad behaviour... Quote:
that I don't want to push her too hard. She seems very bright, but every time I train her a bit too intensively, she (like described above) does what I tell her to, and then a couple of days later, she does not, even though I've been training her every single day... Quote:
steal mine. It can be that you are right about the destroying, but it has really helped, she now relax at nighttime. Quote:
makes when it is hurt and so. Not howling, but... and here should be the word I do not know She has only been peeing one time when I yelled at her, I stopped right away. Sometimes, very seldom, she pees of excitement when we have visitors in the house, only a few drops, but we are working on it. Quote:
But it has happened a few times that she has looked at us, sat down, and started to pee. The first times I yelled at her, but last time I was just so tired of her, that I didn't even react and since then she hasn't done it again. It was the 5th of June. Just to excuse myself so I don't sound like a quitter , I have to mention, that this particular day, she had started the morning by ripping my sheets apart, then been peeing and doing the big job in the kitchen just after I had taken her for a walk, where she had done both, Then she hunted my cat, tried to eat my staircase, been digging big holes in the garden and destroyed my favourite, newly planted, tree. Then she ate the roses, cat again, peeing again, ate almost THREE KILOS of beef-filet we should have been eating when my parents and siplings came over for dinner, a pound of pork and almost same amount of chicken- filet, destroyed some toiletpaper and spread it all over the house.... and so on, and so on... I had just had it there, so I didn't even yell at her when she was peeing right in front of me. - Since then she hasn't done it. You gave me the explanation why, I guess. Quote:
your help and advise. Deborah. |
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19-06-2003, 05:50 | #32 | |
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Trouble with my dog
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I think you have GOT to have control over your dog. If it does not want to listen, MAKE it! It is the only way a dog will learn. The best way is to ALWAYS have a leash on when you do your initial training, that way you do not have to chase the dog around, and can quickly and easily correct it. As for the method of training the dog to sit nicely while being greeted, there is a large process to this, but more than well worth it! It is actually a part of the CGC and TDI tests here in the US... SO Ivy needed to know them to pass these tests. The first thing you do, is to have the dog sit in a heel position. Walk forward using a treat as a lure, as in training to heel, and tell the dog to sit. It should be in the proper position (if not, gently place the dog in the position), and reward it with treats and praise. Do this untill the dog sits properly each time. Then you can work your way up to telling it to 'stay' or 'wait'. Whatever command you choose, it does not matter. Then just have the dog sit there for a few seconds at first, then a few more each time it correctly does the given amount of time. Reward after each command done right, and do NOT be afraid to correct! If the dog does not stay, push it back into place and repeate the command. After the dog gets to doing this right, then you should get someone as a distraction. Have him/her just walk by after the dog is in the 'stay' position. If it gets up, correct it, if not praise! Easy as that! Then have the person walk closer each time, but just walk PAST the dog at first. Then, have the person approach the dog. At first passing right by (preferably on your right side, away from the dog). Then when that is sucessful, have the person come up and pet the dog, then walk away. Eventually people will be able to approach you and the dog will just sit at your side (assuming you have given the command). This HAS to be done on leash at first, untill it will ALWAYS respond to what you are asking of her. You should take the dog for a 10 second 'walk around' break inbetween each of the steps. For exaple, you are getting the dog to sit at your side: walk, have the dog sit in heel position (if not right, correct) give treats, and get up and move around for 10 seconds, and then do it again (maybe only 4 or 5 times in a 'session', maybe only 2 or 3 sessions a day). But do use alot of praise, and in any of your training, do NOT be afraid to clearly voice your commands, and place the dog where it should be. It needs to be told EXACTLY what you want of it, or the dog will be REALLY confused, and may not respond because it does not know what you are asking her. I am going to be away untill Monday night, so that will be why I probably will not respond to any mail untill then. See ya! ~Silver Dragon~ |
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