de Louba Tar kennel

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by bengan

Paul... "i will send you CD with everything on" .. you have my address.. but now will not send it ...even if I reimburse you for the postage..?

This is exactly what your problem is.. you say/claim/promise one thing and then when you have to back up what you have just said.. or when someone asks you a question which is not in line with what you are claiming you change your story.
You have been claiming to have prove of all your accusations and or claims. When asked.. you say you can't publish it yet because of some law suit or legal action you are taking..
After quite some time and nothing happening..and everyone wanting to know what you have..you first you said you would make all the information available on your website for just one day.. which you never did...
then you tell me if I give you my address you will send it to me.... which you have done...
and how you say you'll only send it to one person... who has not even asked you for it....
come on Paul.... just once do what you say you will do..

Bengan

i have sent copy to Koos and Letty because i trust them so they already know the truth about it, as long as my friends know all i state is true is all that matters to me, i tried to warn people from buying bastard dogs and i get jumped on because at time i could not give any info out, wee bit of news as no one else seems to get any news in Europe of what is going on,, ON 10 th december corrie has to appear for the "Tucht Commissie" (Board of Disciplinairy Measures)
[for judging at an unofficial clubmatch in Finland as an FCI Judge] supprised you had not heard of this, it is talk of dog world in Europe at present,,, i stated also that it was very strange that corrie has two affixs for kennels with the kennel club, people say i tell lies you can not have two affixs, no one has this, funny if you look it up on this web site it clearly shows she has two, thank you to the person who ammended this for me because it is true, so this was not a lie either but the truth, the DNA tests do not tell lies they were done by professional people who will give evidence in court.....

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by solowolf

, the DNA tests do not tell lies they were done by professional people who will give evidence in court.....

So the DNA tests was already done, right?
If yes I will open the de Louba Tar topic, well.. was in time I never seen a DNA test take so many time to be made.

[bengan]

Originally Posted by solowolf

i have sent copy to Koos and Letty because i trust them so they already know the truth about it, as long as my friends know all i state is true is all that matters to me, i tried to warn people from buying bastard dogs and i get jumped on because at time i could not give any info out, wee bit of news as no one else seems to get any news in Europe of what is going on,, ON 10 th december corrie has to appear for the "Tucht Commissie" (Board of Disciplinairy Measures)
[for judging at an unofficial clubmatch in Finland as an FCI Judge] supprised you had not heard of this, it is talk of dog world in Europe at present,,, i stated also that it was very strange that corrie has two affixs for kennels with the kennel club, people say i tell lies you can not have two affixs, no one has this, funny if you look it up on this web site it clearly shows she has two, thank you to the person who ammended this for me because it is true, so this was not a lie either but the truth, the DNA tests do not tell lies they were done by professional people who will give evidence in court.....

Paul ..

All you are doing is blowing smoke…. Something you have become very good at..
You say Koos and Letty already know the truth.. so naturally you would send them the evidence and not to one other person, who would believe you, if the so called evidence is real.

I find it very strange.. that you can make all kinds of claims/accusations here in a public forum and only backing it up by saying you have evidence and promise to make that evidence public.. but you NEVER do..

As for you breaking news… I can find nothing of it on the website from the ”Tucht commissie” www.raadvanbeheer.nl but then again I am only interested in the rulings / judgments that they make and post on their website..
Has something to do with being innocent until proven guilty..

What does judging at an unofficial clubmatch have to do with her breeding..and any of the claims you have made..?
And the DNA test…? Have they been done..? Do you have the results.. or are they also a part of your “mythical” CD of evidence..?
And is there a court date set for your professionals to give evidence in..?

Once again you open a discussion… I hope you can follow through with it..

Bengan

[Rona]

Originally Posted by solowolf

cheers rona good luck with the phd

Thanks.
******

I've received several PM & mails asking for the CD (or explaining why I musn't disseminate it.) To make things absolutely clear:
I don't know who's right or wrong in the "kennel war" - I lost track on the developments months ago and have no time or will to follow

I have certain loose impressions and suppositions, but it's too vague basis to get involved in any way or take sides.

One may write on the Internet anything which does not necessarily have to be true. Any materials may be manipulated, selected according to certain criteria, "uplifted", etc. On the other hand, Paul may as well be right though the form in which acts is questionable.

That's why I don't have the CD and don't intend to get or watch it.

In fact the only valid, hard arguments against DLT or any other kennels suspected of mixing breedes and other unethical practices should be based on the dogs' DNA tests conducted and interpreted by objective, independent specialists.
I belive such evidence should be presented at and assessed by the court of justice or FCI Commission and not me nor wolfdog forum people. (Especially none of those immediately involved in the case)

The final verdict will tell us who was right and who was wrong. Only then we'll learn wether some will have to apologize Paul (Bengen, are you ready to do it if DLT loses the case?) or others - Corrie (Paul?).

[bengan]

Originally Posted by Rona

Thanks.
******

The final verdict will tell us who was right and who was wrong. Only then we'll learn wether some will have to apologize Paul (Bengen, are you ready to do it if DLT loses the case?) or others - Corrie (Paul?).

Rona,

I really do hope that something will come out of it.. it should be about the dogs and not the people.. and I have a feeling it's more of a personal conflict and that's a shame..
It's just strange that someone would make certain claims/accusations and when asked to back them up they don't or can't but then just keep on making more claims/accusations... when one does that, it causes frustration and anger.. As I have said a few times.. I really hope for Paul's sake that his "evidence" is accurate and verifiable, otherwise his credibility will be worth nothing.. and for someone with quite some years experience with wolfdogs.. would be a shame..

Bengan

[mijke]

Originally Posted by solowolf

i stated also that it was very strange that corrie has two affixs for kennels with the kennel club, people say i tell lies you can not have two affixs, no one has this, funny if you look it up on this web site it clearly shows she has two, thank you to the person who ammended this for me because it is true.....

I never did write you were telling lies....
And also several Dutch people did complain in the past about these strange double kennel names to the Dutch kennelclub.
And of course I know a lot more rumours about several breeders.
But I'll never believe or add some unproven things about breeders on this site.

When I did buy the pedigree CD rom of the Dutch kennel organisation, I did have the official evidence that this breeder did have (and did use) 2 kennel names.
So at that moment I did add both of them on this site.
And believe me, when I would have more proven things, I would add them.
But I don’t want to deal with rumours about anyone!

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by mijke

I never did write you were telling lies....
And also several Dutch people did complain in the past about these strange double kennel names to the Dutch kennelclub.
And of course I know a lot more rumours about several breeders.
But I'll never believe or add some unproven things about breeders on this site.

When I did buy the pedigree CD rom of the Dutch kennel organisation, I did have the official evidence that this breeder did have (and did use) 2 kennel names.
So at that moment I did add both of them on this site.
And believe me, when I would have more proven things, I would add them.
But I don’t want to deal with rumours about anyone!

hi, yes i know also of people who complained but as yet nothing has been done??? i have sent u email, if you reply then you have all the evidence i do not want it public as yet, i do not want appologies from anyone just a few words, mr winder is correct in things regarding de louba tar kennels will do,,,,, i have no personal vendetta with Mrs Cornellia Keizer just that she should never be allowed to keep any animal ever again. mr winder uk

[bengan]

Originally Posted by solowolf

hi, yes i know also of people who complained but as yet nothing has been done??? i have sent u email, if you reply then you have all the evidence i do not want it public as yet, i do not want appologies from anyone just a few words, mr winder is correct in things regarding de louba tar kennels will do,,,,, i have no personal vendetta with Mrs Cornellia Keizer just that she should never be allowed to keep any animal ever again. mr winder uk

Paul.. until your "evidence" is public and proven.. you should keep your opinions to yourself..and if your "evidence" is not made public and proven then it's you who will have to make apologies

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by bengan

Paul.. until your "evidence" is public and proven.. you should keep your opinions to yourself..and if your "evidence" is not made public and proven then it's you who will have to make apologies

oh no not you yet again,, sorry to dissapoint you but i will definately not have to make any appologies, fact 1 I am only one of the people to give evidence in the case, fact 2 it has taken yrs to put together all evidence,fact 3 most evidence comes from members of DUTCH KENNEL CLUB,,,and other witnesses,, fact 4 it concerns your breed interests not mine, but at least i can say i done something to help the Saarloos breed and help preserve it, it is obvious you havnt a clue just how close this wonderful breed is to major disaster in Europe so therefor i must state that infact you really dont know what goes on with the Saarloos wolfhound at all, if you did then you have funny way of showing any concern about it, i know lots of Saarloos breeders and they all know about the cross breeding, false registering bastard dogs, health problems created in France, and yet you have not,,,,, very strang indeed,, Two questions only for you to answer,,, HOW MANY PURE BRED SAARLOOS ARE THERE LEFT? HOW MANY PURE LINES ARE LEFT TO BREED FROM ? Pacino

[mijke]

I did receive the CD of Paul (with 121 pages in Dutch language) and I was not really impressed.
Because there was NO NEW info for me …… except maybe the names of a few dogs in a statement of Paul that were made black.

Most of the photo’s were already published in forum topics and links on this site.
In the data base we already did add the two kennel names that this breeder uses. (Based on the facts of the pedigree CD of the Dutch kennel organisation Raad van Beheer).
On this site this kennel is on the list of Dutch breeders because all of the pups get Dutch pedigrees. But all wolfdog people (SWH and CSW) in Holland and abroad know that this kennel is situated in France and that is not a secret (because everybody can see this also on the link to the sites that are used on the Dutch club site and here)
Also a lot of people know that in this kennel you can also buy dogs of other kennels (this info is on their pedigree and contract and a lot of people did show this to others )
And for this forum and site it is also not interesting at all that a breeder uses different addresses and strange contracts.
But..
I only can hope that all the facts and proves on this CD can stop a breeder to do such strange things!

The DNA proves are only interesting for SWH world. And that is why I don’t want to speak or discuss about this here.
For CsW world there were no real interesting or new facts, nor facts that moderators of this site already did not know.

So for me this is the and of this discussion.
And for every body who want to know more: please contact Paul. Because I don’t make copy’s of the CD

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by mijke

I did receive the CD of Paul (with 121 pages in Dutch language) and I was not really impressed.
Because there was NO NEW info for me …… except maybe the names of a few dogs in a statement of Paul that were made black.

Most of the photo’s were already published in forum topics and links on this site.
In the data base we already did add the two kennel names that this breeder uses. (Based on the facts of the pedigree CD of the Dutch kennel organisation Raad van Beheer).
On this site this kennel is on the list of Dutch breeders because all of the pups get Dutch pedigrees. But all wolfdog people (SWH and CSW) in Holland and abroad know that this kennel is situated in France and that is not a secret (because everybody can see this also on the link to the sites that are used on the Dutch club site and here)
Also a lot of people know that in this kennel you can also buy dogs of other kennels (this info is on their pedigree and contract and a lot of people did show this to others )
And for this forum and site it is also not interesting at all that a breeder uses different addresses and strange contracts.
But..
I only can hope that all the facts and proves on this CD can stop a breeder to do such strange things!

The DNA proves are only interesting for SWH world. And that is why I don’t want to speak or discuss about this here.
For CsW world there were no real interesting or new facts, nor facts that moderators of this site already did not know.

So for me this is the and of this discussion.
And for every body who want to know more: please contact Paul. Because I don’t make copy’s of the CD

hi thank you for honest comments on cd, i have access to direct offspring from Chrop and can contact owner for sample this may help trace link in lineage to dwarf in CWS, as i do not want any contraversy over vet used, i am prepared to bring bitch to Europe to vet of your choice in spring of 2009, regards Pacino

[z Peronówki]

After many years the breeding business has just been stoped....

[z Peronówki]

Saarloos-breeder sentenced to 4 months in jail

10/20/2017 - 17:45
A French court sentenced the Dutch breeder and judge Cornelia Keizer to 4 months imprisonment. According to the ruling, Emperor would have been guilty of both breeding wolf dogs without the correct papers,and maltreatment of the dogs. An allegation of fraud with foundation fees was deemed not to be proven and for that reason Keizer was acquitted. Keizer said she will appeal.

The story about the 70-year-old Keizer begins in April of this year when the French SPA, an Animal Welfare Organization, receives an anonymous letter in which the breeder is accused of breeding of wolf dogs in "deplorable" circumstances. Pure wolf dogs like the Saarloos and Czech wolf dogs are allowed in France, other wolf hybrids without clear origin are subjected to special regulations and are not allowed in the absence of papers. Also, Keizer was said to breed and sell the dogs in the name of a foundation. This Foundation called Les Loupes Ravis (The Happy Wolves) is a foundation that, according to its website, is dedicated to rehoming primitive dog breeds that are abandoned or need rehoming due to circumstances. After they have been stabilized and socialized, the Foundation is rehoming these dogs with new families, with the Foundation following up.
Keizer is not unknown in the world of wolf dogs. Since her first Saarloos in 1973, she left her tracks in the world of wolf dogs, even though she has a controversial history. Particularly with the Saarloos wolf dogs, there is a fierce struggle between purists who want to avoid any blend of Saarloos wolfdog blood and on the other side the group of people who want to use crossbreeding to cope with hereditary health problems. More specifically, the breeding policy the Dutch Association of Saarlooswolfhonden is committed says: "The centralized breeding policy is characterized by a joint vision of breeding, in which all members take their responsibility for future-oriented breeding and population management. Together we put ourselves on the line for the greater importance: a healthy, reliable and breed typical Saarlooswolfdog. "The other breed club, the General Association of Friends of Saarlooswolfdogs, has a different view. According to them, there are too many inbreeding problems due to this restrictive measure. "Bitches do not get pregnant, and the mating of males was worrying, fewer puppies were born, the litters became smaller and smaller. Puppies were stillborn." Within the NVSWH, there was no hearing, and so the AVVS was established in 2006. Because Keizer was increasingly criticized by her outcross view in the Netherlands, she had already moved to the French Ardennes to establish her kennel there. She was also taken from the Dutch Judges register and registered in the French register of judges, the Societe Centrale Canine, the French Kennel Club.

This went on for years without problems, and the kennel grew bigger and bigger. Until the anonymous letter arrived this spring. The SPA then stated they found neglected dogs. According to the French press, 83 emaciated dogs were found during the check the SPA executed together with representatives of the French court. Other sources mention 133 dogs kept under terrible conditions, including 60 puppies and young dogs. Iwt was said these weren’t the first complaints since in 2012 and 2015 the situation was brought to the attention of animal welfare organizations and police, but nothing was done tat the time. The French breed association for Dutch dogs supposedly had been informed, but did not take any action. Keizer was also a secretary at that association, and regularly worked as a judge. Although there was a one-year suspension as a judge, Keizer returned to the breed association afterwards.

Indeed, if Dogzine asks about this matter at the French breed association, spokeswoman Annie Pouvesle states that no irregularities have been found, even last April. "Les services vétérinaires de la Préfecture suivait le dossier, en n'ont jamais constaté aucun mauvais traitement sur les chiens." According to Pouvesle, the dogs were not confiscated, but the SPA had allowed Keizer to voluntarily remise the dogs because 90 dogs were too many. The counteraction that had been going on for years would finally have been too much for Keizer. "Elle est l'objet de harcèlement depuis de nombreuses années. Ce sont ces mêmes personnes qui sont à l'origine de la plainte, et quai sur internet de fausses information (nombre de chiens incorrect, faux témoignages, etc.) ", or" She has been harrassed for years. These are the same people who are the source of the complaint, and spread the wrong information on the internet (being an incorrect number of dogs, false testimonies, etc.).

The SPA in St. Omer, the place in question, also states that it is not a confiscation but a voluntary giving away. The dogs were not abused, but mainly malnourished, on the verge of bad treatment. "Ils n'étaient pas frappés ils s'agit surtout de surnombre et de manque de nourriture et soins c'est de la négligence mais ça commencé à être unmeform de maltraitance." Injuries other then regular things also were not present. In the shelter they could re-socialize, and the interest for the dogs turned out to be high. Most of them soon arrived in other homes.

And before the lawsuit, Cornelia Keizer also states that it's especially a witch hunt on her and she has been planning to slim the kennel for a long time. "In view of my age, I started 10 years ago looking for a successor to continue my work. 3 failed attempts (hard work, not a lot of glamour in poop scooping, no financial reward!) urged me to hand over the dogs to the most prominent animal protection agency. There are no confiscated or malnourished dogs . " Both the breed association and other sources report that they have been regularly with volunteers at Keizer to help, and also to neuter the dogs.
It is a fact that, thanks to Keizer’s efforts, there are still enough dogs, also in the Netherlands. A source reports to Dogzine: "Apart from this she has sold hundreds of Saarlooswolfhonden in the Netherlands between 1995 to 2008. Without her there would not have been a Saarlooswolfdog population outside the NVSWH." Keizer herself says: "I will be 70 this year and have spent all of my time on my dogs and the cynology in general for 44 years now: directorships in regional dog clubs, co-founder and years of chairman of the Association for Czechoslovak Wolfdogs, board member of several French breed clubs (BHCF, now ABNF) and the club français du chien de montagne de l'Atlas) "The French kennel club, the SCC, states they have no file on this case and have no further information on this matter.
Keizer still had nine dogs, although she states the number is seven. Maybe one more litter in the future, but there is no rush: "Well-deserved rest and travel have my priority!"
Also, Keizer wishes to remain a judge. "The groups I judge (groups 1,2 and 5) give me the opportunity to stay in touch with my favorite breeds and I hope to keep doing until at an even higher age!"
Despite all this, Keizer’s role fort he breed remains of major importance. Thanks to her, although maybe not always fully monitored, there always was a relatively stable number of SWHs, also in the Netherlands. However, the NVVS sees those dogs most preferably removed from the studbook. Even though there are hardly any animals born in the last few years, according to the NVVS breeding records, as opponents report. The NVVS itself reports "There is no big breeding within the NVSWH."
When the appeal is, is still unknown.

Auteur
Andre Heuzer
http://dogzine.nl/en/newsarticle/saa...-4-months-jail

[z Peronówki]

The drama of Le Briqueterie

11/03/2017 - 09:25
“She is famous in the world of Saarloos wolfhonden and a well known name in the French and European cynology.” (Cornelia is) more than just a breeder, she is an artist who continuously improves the breed with both the eye of a painter and that of an engineer. Her first priority is structure. After that movement. As of yet she is the largest breeder of this breed and produces the most beautiful dogs.”
An enthusiastic description of Corrie Keizer found on the website of kennel Canis Africae, owed by breeder and upcoming judge Nicolas Martin, one of the “students” of Keizer. The website states that Keizer functions as a mentor for this kennel.
And this makes it all so unbelievable that the French judge immediately accepted the statement of the lawyer who said that Keizer did not have knowledge regarding the regulations and only incidentally lived in France as a breeder.
Dogzine received many reactions after a previous article on this breeder of Saarloos- and Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs was published. We will spend the upcoming weeks to look into these reactions and form a complete image of the situation. It has become clear what has happened regarding Le Briqueterie. Even though there are more sides of this story circulating, the Cellule Anti-Trafic confirmed to us that 119 dogs have been taken away. This has been done voluntary and was not a seizure. However, French sources let us know that the event might have been less voluntary than presumed. A legal seizure is something that, also in France, can take a lot of time. Both the gendarmerie and the animal rights organizations agreed that waiting for a legal seizure would not help the situation of the dogs owned by Keizer, which is why they discussed the possibilities of her handing over the dogs voluntary. This made it possible to take away the dogs immediately, a task that took 4 days in total.

The member of the Cellule Anti-trafique who went to visit the place described that the first sight didn’t look as bad. This means that the adult dogs were kept in kennels, even though these were on the smaller side. Pups and young dogs were kept inside the house, which also contained a “maternite”, a place where pups were raised. The basement was used to home young dogs and pregnant bitches. The member described this as “Conditions in which these dogs were kept are unacceptable. The dogs, including pregnant bitches, were kept in an almost completely dark basement. The bitches and their pups were kept in a dark, moist room.”

According to the Celulle anti-trafique, the taskforce of France’s SPA, the condition of the dogs they saw was severe, but not too severe. The dogs were underfed and one of them had a large tumor, which she died from several days later. However, the most concerning was the social state of these dogs. They were completely unsocialized, aggressive and/or fearful. Especially the young dogs that were found showed extreme aggression.

Dogzine mentioned earlier that the rehoming of the dogs was going well. However, this was only about the dogs that were brought to the shelter of St. Omer. This is just one of the many shelters where the dogs from this situation were brought to. The dogs who were in worse condition were placed in different shelters and organizations. According to the spokesperson of the Celulle anti-trafique about half of the dogs was rehomed. However, the other half includes dogs that require a lot of time to become social pets. For some of them, this might never be possible. The CAF states that the behavior issues are the biggest problem in this situation. As for the living environment, they have seen worse.
Descriptions of the dogs at the other shelters confirm these behavior problems:
“Flamm arrived here traumatized and emaciated.”
“Elyah arrived here on the 10th of May and was extremely skinny and had skin problems.”
“When I adopted mine, it was nearly a corpse.”
“She is fearful and al her education is to be done.”
“He has had very few pleasant contacts with human beings.”
A dog behaviorist who works at the Tilloy les Mofflaines shelter was involved in the seizure of these dogs. She told Dogzine the following shocking story about the situation at the kennel. She arrived at the beginning of May to take the dogs away.
“We had to close the high boxes because the wolfdogs were trying to flee by jumping over the boxes. They were in complete panic. They were hiding during the day and ate like hungry wolves at night. They were skinny. Dick, Freya and Alix were in the same kennel, they’re probably siblings. Alix is aggressive and her brother was defending her.” The behaviorist asked to separate the dogs in order to travel with them in a safe manner. Alix still does not trust anyone and no one dares to clean her kennel and feed her because of this.

Heyden, a 6 month old puppy that was only 3 months old according to Keizer. “I took him home for 2 months. He was not used to anything, was afraid of the leash and was only active during nighttime. He was about as large as a 3 month old German Shepherd and suffered from giardiasis.”
Montana is the dog who had a tumor of 2.5kg and 25centimeters. The caretakers first suspected her to be pregnant. She was put to sleep because of her condition.
When caretakers arrived, the justice department was already present. Keizer refused to catch her dogs because according to her they were dangerous. The kennels contained some “dangerous” dogs, who eventually turned out to be in bad shape and health, according to the therapist. The situation did not improve immediately after the dogs were brought to the shelters. “Yuma is a bitch that I still cannot touch or stroke to this day. She doesn’t get along with other dogs, misses a piece of her ear and has a scar on her muzzle.” The other dogs all seem to be in a similar shape: fearful, traumatized and not able to live as a pet at the moment. At the beginning of June the organization returned to the place to pick up the last remaining dogs. “As for pups, I have never seen so much misery and fear in the eyes of an animal. They lay on each other or seemed immobilized by panic.”

The experiences of the CAT and the therapist were confirmed by many. It’s made clear that this situation was not developed in a matter of months or even a couple of years. Dogzine spoke to some of the volunteers who helped Cornelia Keizer at her kennel, sometimes many years ago. “I saw emaciated dogs, scared and trying to survive, living in the mud and moist. The place was inhabited by large rats and the dogs lived in kennels and cardboard boxes. Except for the best looking dogs. The ones who were good enough to take to a dog show. I often took my own dogs to the places I worked, but I never took them there because of the horrible circumstances these dogs were in, this was a living hell. When I worked there, there were nearly 80 dogs.”

Keizer, a breeder who works with pedigrees, was not very interested in which dogs mated to which. “When I worked there she once told me she found dead pups whose navel cord was still attached to their mother. She did not even know the bitch was pregnant.” All of this happened under a breed club that not only accepted Keizer’s actions, but also recognized her as an valuable member and where she judged the breed several times. (De Vereniging voor Nederlandse Herdershonden, chairlady Annie Pouvesle).

And there is more. “People who bought a dog there received a pup out of accidental matings with no health tests or screening done. They often didn’t know if the dog was a Saarloos, Czech or a mix of both.”

Other volunteers tell us about the dog cemetery that is said to be on the terrain of Le Briqueterie. The CAF could not confirm this, nor did they look for something like this. They also cannot confirm rumors about Keizer asking her neighbors to shoot and kill some of her dogs. This was told several times by different sources.
Apart from these experiences and confirmations about the situation at this place, more stories about the breeding practices under different kennelnames have reached us. We will continue to investigate this in the upcoming weeks.

Names of the cited persons are known to the author

Auteur
Andre Heuzer
http://dogzine.nl/en/newsarticle/drama-le-briqueterie