Obedience with CsV

[Priska182]

Hi everyone
I know that a lot of threads already exist about CsV working ability but I would like to know if some of your train there CsV in obedience do you have some video of their work and if you can say what is their level
Thank you very much

[jefta]

I train with Sexy obedience from time to time. But obedience in FCI is different than in UK, US, Canada etc.

She is probably ready for basic class (obedience 0) we will see on competition

I have only video from our IPO B training. I don`t know you call it `obedience` or not (in polish we have other word for that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LksbV...99AUAAAAAAACAA

[Priska182]

Hello Jefta,

Thank you very much that’s exactly the answer I was hoping for How old is Sexy? And since how long do you train her?

I wish to train mine but he is still really young for now (3 months and 1/2) and I don't want to expect too much from him.

So, good luck to both of you when you will go on competition And thanks again for you answer

Best regards,

[GalomyOak]

Beautiful Jefta! I am sooooooo jealous of nicely she gives you focus - that's been one of the most difficult things for me to master with my dogs.

Formal Obedience with the AKC looks very similar (in nice form, anyways). Rally Obedience looks muuuuuch different, since there is no limit to how many commands (either hand or voice) that you are allowed to give. It looks, in many cases, with Rally Obedience, like the dog is charge of the owner. Rally is a good "gateway" to AKC obedience for newer handlers though, and if you are serious, and make a point to have a nice presentation and well trained dog, you can score highly, often.

We also have IPO obedience training in both countries though - through an organization called the DVG. http://dvgamerica.com/
This training is more strict, and much more similar to what you see in Europe.

[of_Mercedes_Dream]

[Priska182]

Hello Patrick,

Wow it's really amazing! Thank you very much for sharing Do you think that the clicker help a lot? I never try it, but I'm really curious about it... Have you take some cliker lesson?
As you can see I'm really looking for the best way to train my little monster. He is really smart but he also have a strong character

I never try "real obédiance" with my first Vlcak but this time I really wish more from my dog So I whant to know what I can expect from him now and what is still too soon for him...

Best regards,

Stéphanie & Genzo

[of_Mercedes_Dream]

The puppy is born in my breed but belong to Katleen and Tania. One of those ladies is dog trainer. You can contact her : [email protected]. Also in english.
I don't have experience with clicker.
Kuthumi Chohan of mercedes dream (30/10/11) is a son of Isla of mercedes dream and Heron van Goverwelle.
gr
Patrick

[Priska182]

Originally Posted by of_Mercedes_Dream

The puppy is born in my breed but belong to Katleen and Tania. One of those ladies is dog trainer. You can contact her : [email protected]. Also in english.
I don't have experience with clicker.
Kuthumi Chohan of mercedes dream (30/10/11) is a son of Isla of mercedes dream and Heron van Goverwelle.
gr
Patrick

Thank you very much Patrick

[jefta]

Thank's Marcy

Sexy is 24m old on movie. We start obedience when she was about one year old. It was a bit too early for our team. I don't like working with puppies so it was more destruktive than succesfull...
You can start with your dog now from building drives and motivation, focusing face, building on/off working bottom, introducing clicker etc. But comands and scheme... your decision. Working with puppies have good and bad sides. Think about it.
I use clicker. It is very helpfull especialy for less expiriened handlers with timing problem

[Priska182]

Thank you very much Jefta for your advices But why do you think it can be destructive with a young dog?

[jefta]

"When a dog start too young, he soon loses intrest or gets distracted. This creates a poor first impression.
[...]
in going too far, too soon, the young dog get stressed or quits and there is noting you can do. This only teaches incorrect behavior and lives him with the wrong idea." Sheila Booth.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Priska182

But why do you think it can be destructive with a young dog?

I have another explanation
Because walking a pup too much in a position so unnatural for a wolfdog, with the head up and turned to the side and with raising the front legs as if the pup was a pony might badly affect the top line and movement of an adult dog?

Sorry, but to me training such walking with the dog does not make any sense. Vlcaks don't need to look at the leader to "listen" to him. They use all senses to pay attention and react with their ears, notice every movement and slightest sound of words, non-verbal signals, breathing pace, etc. One can easily read how attentive the dog is by looking at his ears and body movement. I find this trait very "wolfish" and beautiful and would be afraid to spoil it by teaching a dog "circus walking".

I still appreciate the trick and have nothing against obedience as such; it's only a personal opinion of somebody who is rather non-sport and non-competitive. Real life obedience is much more important for me than any exams.

[Priska182]

Thanks again Jefta


Hello Rona,
For now I only wish a nice dog with a good behavior and great capacity to obey. That’s why we go to puppy school and teach him basics commands for now.
He is a smart pup who is able to understand a lot of thing but he also has a strong behavior. He doesn't like to be force to do something. If he doesn’t like the exercise he goes crazy Everything was ok with basic command like sit, down, up, come, but we encounter a problem with the Stay... So I’m wondering if it can be too early for him. I also know that CsV are easy boring to do the same thing so once again I’m wondering if it can be part of the problem…
With my first CsV,, Priska, well she was a nice girl without real strong behavior. She only learns sit, down, come and go to bed... And well it was enough for our team. But Genzo have a really strong personality, I have small kids, and the breed is quite new in Canada so, I want him to be a real gentleman, obedient and trusty and any time. That's my first goal with him. And after that we will see what sport does he will like and we will try to perform together. Obedience can be really nice, but I'm also interesting in tracking and agility and for your dog sled for my kids when he will be ready
Best regards,

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Priska182

But Genzo have a really strong personality, I have small kids, and the breed is quite new in Canada so, I want him to be a real gentleman, obedient and trusty and any time. That's my first goal with him.

Hi, I think you don't have to worry too much about the stay command obedience if you just want a nice gentle family dog. Of course, it is good to have this command, as well as the others, but in my opinion, obedience and general behaviour are actually two different things. They often come hand in hand (as people who are able to train dogs usually also bring them up properly, and people who cannot teach a dog to behave normally are not able to teach obedience), but those are like with children. You can have illiterate and still great behaving people, and you can have well-educated people who are like small kids in other respects (and not for lack of social inteligence).

So if you have strong personality pup you should in my opinion first concentrate on the socialization, including the behavior with small children, old people, crowds and so on, teaching to calm down* and transfer the emotions to appropriate channels, and to develop the relationship towards cooperation and motivation. Teach the commands that are required for everyday life, like walking at heal, sitting and laying (it is much easier to calm down a laying dog than a standing one), coming, waiting without making ruckus, etc. And if you find that the dog (or you) enjoys training, then you can proceed to the real obedience, which in my opinion is more like teaching to respond to a command in a very precise way.

Command stay is very hard for a strong-tempered puppy, as it requires internal calming down, so you should proceed slowly, if he has problems with it. Do not get discouraged, but first of all, do not discourage him!

* I have a friend with two boys with some learning/developmental problems, who love Frei but at the same time are afraid of dogs in general and to some extent also of Frei. When we visit them, they always look very much forward to it, but at the same time they are scared of contact with Frei (but when I visit they ask me to bring her also). At the same time, Frei is a very friendly dog and though she is relatively calm, she is very enthusiastic to greet people she loves, my friend's sons of course included. So imagine when we come - the boys are happily running around, loudly greeting us, but keeping a distance from Frei. She is happy to see everybody and wants to jump around and lick everybody's face and grab their hands to show how much she loves them and squeals with pleasure. So every time, I have to make her sit, we all wait until both she and the boys calm down and then they come and pet her (they would only come when she is calm enough) and then she can be left to run around the house... She learned to calm down in their house very fast, it is a matter of five minutes or so, while at our home she usually needs ten minutes of running at top speed and jumping around in the yard and garden, with her mouth full of a toy or shoe or something.

[hanninadina]

Hi Stephanie,

I own beside 4 american wolfdogs 2 czechoslovakian ones. And my female Myla Crying Wolf has a very strong personality. I trained her from 8 weeks on. I got her with 6 weeks. And with 5 month she would even be able to pass akc companion exam. So I can only recommand to train a dog as early as possible. But of course the hardest thing is to teach these strong characters to stay! Therefore this command must be done in real small steps. When your pup is 3,5 month, it is enough if he stays only for 10 seconds. You can increase this time of course. All other commands, you see it very well in Patrik his video, are easily done by a czechwolfdog. Never forget they are more german shepherds than wolfdogs!

My male, U´Tala z Molu Es, passed german VDH-Hundeführerschein - means dogsdriverlicence from similar like AKC here it is called VDH -. And I got him with 11 month from people who could not have him any more. On one hand he is like german shepherd and listens very fast to all commands and can be very hyperactic - like working class gsd - and on the other hand he is a real pet dog!

But it is much more easy to train a young dog than to wait til he is one year! Even speciality judges and absolutely breed specialist like Oscar Dora train their pups with 10 weeks with all sorts of command, which you saw in the video. I saw it 2 years ago with my own ice.

Helpful is always in the time where the pups grow to confirm with food, meat. With Clicker I am not experienced, but I do believe that this must work very well too. I know that Monty Sloan from wolfpark is training their wovles with clicker and he told me that it works very good.

But Saschia is right, if you have kids at home the most important thing is, to socialize your dog best possible! There is not a too much for a young dog!

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

[jefta]

Originally Posted by Rona

I have another explanation
Because walking a pup too much in a position so unnatural for a wolfdog, with the head up and turned to the side and with raising the front legs as if the pup was a pony might badly affect the top line and movement of an adult dog?

puppy make 2-3 steps, young dog maybe 10-few times a week

Originally Posted by Rona

Sorry, but to me training such walking with the dog does not make any sense. Vlcaks don't need to look at the leader to "listen" to him. They use all senses to pay attention and react with their ears, notice every movement and slightest sound of words, non-verbal signals, breathing pace, etc. One can easily read how attentive the dog is by looking at his ears and body movement. I find this trait very "wolfish" and beautiful and would be afraid to spoil it by teaching a dog "circus walking".

When dog is really attentive, obidient, concentreted, full in drive and fast but not it`s ok for me, I like it I saw one (1) csv like this, but if I see that handler is in half way back when the dog just make turn about ...
[/quote]

Originally Posted by Priska182

Thank you very much Jefta for your advices But why do you think it can be destructive with a young dog?

Example:
I start learning changing position when she was not ready. Now I have sit from down to the front but down from sit also to the front and because of that she move to the front even if she make no steps It`s very hard now to change meaning of a command. I`m talking only about sport obidience. Home work must be done so early as posible!!! Introdution to sport too.


edit:
I saw video Great puppy There is introdution to cliker work. Very nice. I hope they publicate similar movie in next year I`m very intresting how they will work with this changing position

But it is much more easy to train a young dog than to wait til he is one year! Even speciality judges and absolutely breed specialist like Oscar Dora train their pups with 10 weeks with all sorts of command, which you saw in the video. I saw it 2 years ago with my own ice.

Oskar Dora have ever trained csv to high obidence? I know him as great exterier judge and breed specialist but first time I hear that he is also obidience specialist

[hanninadina]

Jefta, that what you did discribe what you did with your dog, Oskar did in front of strangers during a wolfdog meeting and show in germany with his 9 or 10 weeks old puppy. From down to sit and other way round!

It is obvious, that a dog learns much faster in socialization time during the first 16 weeks! That is what I did with my Myla.

It is old thinking to start teaching the dog with 1 year!

It is the same with children. They do learn in the early years much faster than later.

I am sorry, I am not a friend of Oskar, but I respect his highly work with his breeding and his animals. That is why I mentioned it. And you can see it in the video with the young pup, it is also doing from down to sit and other way round. And it is not a matter of clicker training....

[Priska182]

Hello

Thank you very much Sachia and Hanninadia for your answers and experiences

Actually, after one week working on it the "Sit and Stay" is in real progress He can stay with a leash 20 second in that position. We practice outside, and because of the snow and the cold weather it's not always funny for both of us But he did it He is a nice dog and he really loves treats