panostitis

[lisica]

I became a proud CW owner recenty. I do have a problem now, and I am asking for some help! She is 11 weeks old now and 5 days ago became unactive first. My wife said: "she behaved herself a little (she stopped biting everything". Then dog started to limb on one leg and another day on another. After examination my Vet said she has PANOSTITIS. He gave us only RYMADIL tablets (analgetic only), and said the dog must rest. We carry her out for pee and sheet and she rests all the time! I do not have experience with this desease, do you have maybee?? how long it takes to owercome? When (if) it appeared by your CW?? I am quite warried about that! How often is this desease by CW? What else can I do?
Someone advised me not to give her analgetic, because she will not rest then??

Thanks!!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hello,

I think your vet means Panostitis eosinophilica. The dogs are showing pain when you press on the long bones of the legs (sorry, my English isn´t really good enough to describe it properly), you need an x-ray for the diagnosis. The x-rays show a typical bone structur of higher density patches in those bones, the theory is that the high density patches cause a compression of the little holes where the nutrificial ways go into the bone. The disease disappears when the dog stops its length growth, around one year. Till then you only can give drugs like Rimadyl, some people think Vit. C helps, that has not been verified yet. Normally it starts later than 11 weeks. Till now nobody really knows the reason for this disease.
There seems to be one dog in Germany with this problem, anyway it is not very common.

Regards Ina

[lisica]

Thanks Ina for answer. It is difficut for me looking at my dog, lying only. What a change in 3 days. Do you know maybee at which age desease started by this German dog and at which age was finished?
I also read it helps that you lower proteins in dogs food.

regards, lisica

[Ori]

Hi lisica!
How is she behaving now? Does she want to play or something? Or is she just laying down and rest?

[lisica]

Yesterday she just rested almost all day. When I picked her up to carry her out she wiped as "hurts". Today she is walking a little bit around living room. She has very big apettite, at 5.30 today (just before I went to work) she swallowed her breakfast! (first milch, then pasta with tuna and yellow part of egg) Usuall one part of the day is better then one part worse. At the moment she limbs on back left food.

Regards, Lisica

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

It normally occurs in the age of 5-12 month. I´ve never seen a case as young as your dog (I think the German dog was 5 or 6 month old), was he x-rayed or just looked at? There are other diseases with likely symptoms.
Protein-high diets have been discussed as a reason, but not been verified.

Ina

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hello,

I just looked for it on google. There was an austrian research that shows up a relation between Pasteurella-caused Tonsillitis and Panostitis. Tonsilektomie showed very good results with the Panostitis. But I found no case younger than 5 month.
I had some cases where dogs with Tonsillitis showed general pain in movement, maybe this is worth a try.

Ina

[lisica]

Thats what I am worried about. The age of 2.5 months. I searched for so young dogs with panosteitis and I didn t found one. This is common desease for big breeds puppies, (German shepards, golden retrievers, labradors..) but older than 5-6 months! X ray shot was not made, while my vet (very experienced one) said it is not necessary, but I think in a week (if things will not improve) I will demand one to be sure about diagnose. My dog had also dirrhoea 2 weeks ago, but things with sheet are now perfect (and with appetite). She also gets medicine Flagyl (2 days left to finish) Do you know flagyl works against bacteria pasteurella?

regards, Miha

[lisica]

Ina do you know if I can check for tonsilitis by my self? I have 3 children, and for them it is no problem to check similar deseases by myself!

regards, lisica

[Koos]

Hello Lisica,

I had the same problems by German Shepherds and once by CW's. I don't know excactly if panostitis is the same as enostosis but. Mayby Ina can give us the answer, but for me, it are growingpains. It start with me also at the age of 7 - 8 weeks.

I have very good results with some Homeopatical products.
Mayby you can try it. Of course I know that some people are very scaptical about Homeomaty but for me it works sometimes better than regular medicins however it is not allways usefull to stop the normal medicin. And you can combinate it with regular medicins. Stop with food with high proteine and give a normal adult food.

1. BASICTHERAPY for the young growing up dog, which is growing too fast younger than 5 month. = Calcium carbonicum Hahnemanni D12. Once a day one dosis from the age of 4 month till a year old, during 3 till 6 weeks. If it is not better you can continue with it.

one dosis are 5 drups,
5 mini, mini, grains
3 middle grains
1 tablet

You can combinate this with Rhus toxicodendron D 30, also 1 dosis a day.

I hope, when you use it, you will have good results, very soon.

Greetings,

Letty de Graaff

[lisica]

Thanks for help! Yesterday afternoon it was really bad. She cryed almost all the time. Of course I took her back to vet. He examined her again and took two X ray shoots to confirm diagnose. He couldn t see on x ray pictures any tipical changes which usually appear with panastoitis. After examination he explained to me, that pain is very tipical and that sometimes on x-ray shoots desease is not obviously seen in the first week of desease. Vet also increased her RIMADYL dose from 2 mg /1kg body mass to 3.75mg /1kg body mass. He reminded me to give her medicine allways after meal again, while RIMADYL is bad for stomach.

Letty:
panosteitis = enostosis(my vet wrote me three names for same desease) I reduced the proteine (meet) in her food allready. I feed her with natural food, she don t want to hear for brickets at all. Can you write to me which company produce this. "Calcium carbonicum Hahnemanni D12"

regards, Lisica

[Koos]

Hello Lisica,

It is a Dutch company and it is called VSM. in Alkmaar. I don't know where you are coming from and dif you can get it in your country.
When there are Homeopatic stores or pharmacists in your town, mostly they can order it for you.

If not then there is another possibility to get it and therefore you have to phone my vet in Holland. Tell hem the whole story and there is a very well change, that he will send it to you. You can try him in the morning between 8.00 - 9.00 O,clock and between 12.30 and 13.30 O,clock. You have to try it several times because it is an open telephone consulting-hour.
Maybe he can tell you some more about it and give you maybe also something else.

If you want, you can give up my name. It is well known there.

The tel.phone number of the vet is. 0031 317 412432

Good luck.

By the way, I can imagine, that on the X ray pictures there is hardly nothing to see because the legs are not compleetly out of bone. That is in the age of about 7 month.

Letty

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hello,

you find the Tonsills deep in the throat left and right of the Larhynx. In dogs they are in pockets, so if they are not bigger than normal or inflammated you only can see the opening of the pockets not the tonsills itself, when they are enlarged or inflammated you the two knods comming out of the pockets. You have to open the mouth wide and hold down the tongue with one finger.
You normally don´t choose Flagyl against Pasteurella, but it should work at them. But I looked up the sideeffects of Flagyl: Ataxy, Tremor and cramps of muscels, so it eventuelly is possible that the symptoms will stop up to two days after Flagylapplication. Light signs could maybe show the symptoms your dog has.
You can give Rimadyl up to 4.4 mg/kg, what is the dosage recommended by the company in Germany.

Ina

[lisica]

We stopped flagyl today. It is one of possible reasons I can remove. And checked tonsills, the are OK. Today she was better in forenoon. She was biting my wife again and trying to play. But in the afternoon and now she is bad. She only lies and rests, and wipes when I try to pick her up to carry her out to pee.

LETTY: can you please explain to me more detail how your dog behavied when he had "growing pain", please? Did he walked around, or just rest all day? Was he crying when you tried to pick him up? Was he one part of the day better than much worse in the same day? I will try to find the drug of course. Here in my country there are no special homeopatic stores, but I will find a way. I live in Slovenija, but Austria and Italy are very close. Is this drug only for animals or for human also?

Regards, Lisica

[Koos]

Hello Lisica,

You ask me if the Homoepatic medicin only for animals is or also for human use. Normaly it is for human use and not for animals. So you can buy it in a normal way and I think especially in Austria they will get it.

What about the dog. It depends of the daytime. In the morningstart it was very bad, then after a while it was better, but after some playing or little walking it was bad again. Sometimes it cries a little and therefore it rests and sleeps a lot. I think that is also the best way.

But what I am wondering for is,. that your dog is crying also when you pick him up, that means to my opnion, that he has also pain round his ribs????. That hid legs are painfull, that I can understand and sometimes it will help that you will give him a message.
Crying and biting when I have pickuped my dog, he didn't.

I hope, I have give you some more information now.

Still one question. Did your dog growing very fast in the last weeks????

Have a good night and sleep well,

Letty

[lisica]

I think she didn t grow very fast. She ate natural food all the time, just maybe 3 times brickets (hills for big breed puppies) - testers which I got in a dogs store for free. And before she was ill I used brickets (the same one) as a reward when we were teaching. Now she don t want to tuch brickets even when she is hungry.

regards, lisica

[Koos]

Hello Lisica,

Today I was by my vet and I told him the whole story. He said that Flagyl had no use and Rimidyl is only for the pain.

I have taken the medicin from him. If you want I can send it to you. In that case, give me your adres and I send it. If you don't want to give your adres, mail it privatly to me. My e-mailadres is [email protected]

Greetings,

Letty

[lisica]

I sent you mail in the morning! Thanks a lot for your support!

Regards, Lisica

[alexa]

Hello all,

thank you for your support to lisica – he has puppy from me. I know this disease only theoretically, but I don´t have experience with this. I consulted it with my vet too – he told me the same what lisica´s vet told him – it is disease of dogs up to 1 year, can be with different intensity, no consequences in adulthood. Your experience is very valuable for me too.

Do you think intensity of disease can be caused or impressed or started so the puppy had diarrhoea before it and lost bodily fluids and minerals? I will try to consult this problem with another else vet – who is very avowed expert, I hope he answer me soon.

Karel, Brno, CZ

[lisica]

I would like to express gratitude to Karel for all concers and things he had done for me. He really care about his puppies!!

lisica