British Kennel Club Recognition

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Rona

My advice to British solid owners and potential breeders who want to honestly develop the breed in the UK: go to CSV summer camps, meetings, bonitations with or without your dog and let yourself known to European vlcak community. Meet other owners and breeders, watch the dogs, compare, learn how they're trained and socialized, what problems are faced when raising them, etc. Not to mention that at such events you'll have the chance to learn things which are never put on-line. Lots of people speak English now, so there is no language barrier and cheap airlines are really conveniant for such purposes, especially that the events are announced so far ahead. Alternatively a few breed fans might share petrol costs and visit a couple of kennels on their way.... It often happens that wolfdog owners put up other wolfdog owners/lovers or help them find conveniant accommodation so the expenses do not necessarily have to be high, but the non-material gains IMO are huge.

Once again, fantastic advice from Rona

And a warning about the lady mentioned above - I spoke with her before (better the devil you know ) and have learned that she is looking for a breeder to send her sperm to inseminate her female... Be warned!

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by hedeon

I don't think it is insulting. It just says what it is, dog not registered with FCI. Which is true. I am sure that most of those dogs are pure CSV, but some are not. When they get registered with KC they will be allowed for breeding. How to separate them?

I agree that differentiation is needed, but not sure that the addition of ''(possibly) a wolfdog'' is entirely necessary at this stage - it would be enough to say that the dog comes from a non-FCI kennel and should not be used for breeding. It doesn't affect me directly, I can just see why some people are a little upset.

Interestingly, a dog owned by one of these 'breeders' (who doesn't even list all his puppies on here) is classed as suitable for breeding yet has NO health data at all, yet dogs who have all the necessary results are still listed as NOT suitable as ADMIN has not updated the results yet. Mixed messages?

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

And a warning about the lady mentioned above - I spoke with her before (better the devil you know ) and have learned that she is looking for a breeder to send her sperm to inseminate her female...

Which female? A mix one or the one of unsure parenthood?

I can see how hard it will be to gather a group of honest enthusiasts who could trust each other, so that none of them will undermine the attempts from the inside.

This reminds me a bit of communist, pre-Solidarity times in my country...

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Rona

Which female? A mix one or the one of unsure parenthood?

I can see how hard it will be to gather a group of honest enthusiasts who could trust each other, so that none of them will undermine the attempts from the inside.

This reminds me a bit of communist, pre-Solidarity times in my country...

She has a Shoshone female, but is not listed on here as the owner due to a disagreement with the breeder, I think. I think it is litter sister of Layla's dog.

It is a bad situation in the UK, so a few strong, good people will be needed to support the group and keep everything on the straight and narrow (you know who I mean as one of them ).

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I wish the best of luck in getting CsV recognized in the UK. According to Hedeon's post on page 4 regarding recognition, the KC rules states the following info must be included:

- Names & addresses of UK owners/importers
- Total number of dogs of the breed in the UK
[ideally at least 20, preferably unrelated]
- Copies of pedigrees of UK dogs – at least 3 generations
- Proposed breeding plan and indication of available gene pool

Hopefully there will be some breeders in the future who can fulfill point 4, because surely a proposed breeding plan acceptable by the KC can not include cross breeding or mixing.

would we need a certain 'persons' co operation? and where would we stand on the cw dogs are they from 'suspect' litters? that and at least two litters of said dogs are from 'c' rated hips....kinda bad way to start already!!!

and dont get get me started on the person that said 'they would only breed pure' with my dogs litter sister....breeders beware is all i can say!

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I am curious if the cross-breeders cite "hybrid vigor" as the reason for their mixing?

Mijke posted a link to all the known CsV health issues - if a person is mixing with CsVs, they should be testing for all the diseases CsVs are known to carry too.

Can they post the results the health testing they have done on the mixed dogs, so to say objectively that such breeding is actually making the dogs healthier?

its all an excuse!! alot of the cross breed owners here call their dogs pure as, 'quote'..... its the closest your gonna get to one!!!.... er no its not!!!!!

its all about £££££££

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by hedeon

I don't think it is insulting. It just says what it is, dog not registered with FCI. Which is true. I am sure that most of those dogs are pure CSV, but some are not. When they get registered with KC they will be allowed for breeding. How to separate them?

i disagree ,it IS insulting.... my dog is an unregistered csv not a 'possible csv' there is a big difference imo

[orkwolf]

Can anyone help?
I want to improve the lines of CsV in the UK, dogs with low hip score and free of DM, can anyone help? It seems like there is NO help or advice being given to people who want to breed pure CsV in the UK, just people complaining.
Yes I have bred pure CsV with 3/4 CsV bitches, when NO ONE will sell a pure bitch & no one is prepared to help then you make do with what is available. I can see how strongly the European CsV owners and club want to keep their breed pure and I want to also do the same, so I come to you for advice and help.
I want 2 pure breeding bitches 15 to 20 months old to breed with. I want low hip scores & DM free. CAN anyone or IS anyone prepared to help promote a new healthy pure line in the UK to a serious breeder who is determined to promote healthy dogs that are kept and bred in exceptional facilities in the UK? Many breeders lie & are stabbing each other in the back here instead of getting together to promote what is best & good for the CsV.
There are even certain breeders who are trying to lie about me to stop me getting bitches to breed with, I can only think this is out of jealously as I have never wronged anybody.
There are many unscrupulous breeders with dirty tactics. I have never and will NEVER lie about my dogs, their age, breed, health, pups or dates of birth, unlike so many!
I WILL breed pure CsV bitches and dogs, one way or another but I want to do it properly.
Please message me any advice or information, I am not too proud to listen and learn.
Thank You

[happyfeet]

Originally Posted by orkwolf

Can anyone help?
I want to improve the lines of CsV in the UK, dogs with low hip score and free of DM, can anyone help? It seems like there is NO help or advice being given to people who want to breed pure CsV in the UK, just people complaining.
Yes I have bred pure CsV with 3/4 CsV bitches, when NO ONE will sell a pure bitch & no one is prepared to help then you make do with what is available. I can see how strongly the European CsV owners and club want to keep their breed pure and I want to also do the same, so I come to you for advice and help.
I want 2 pure breeding bitches 15 to 20 months old to breed with. I want low hip scores & DM free. CAN anyone or IS anyone prepared to help promote a new healthy pure line in the UK to a serious breeder who is determined to promote healthy dogs that are kept and bred in exceptional facilities in the UK? Many breeders lie & are stabbing each other in the back here instead of getting together to promote what is best & good for the CsV.
There are even certain breeders who are trying to lie about me to stop me getting bitches to breed with, I can only think this is out of jealously as I have never wronged anybody.
There are many unscrupulous breeders with dirty tactics. I have never and will NEVER lie about my dogs, their age, breed, health, pups or dates of birth, unlike so many!
I WILL breed pure CsV bitches and dogs, one way or another but I want to do it properly.
Please message me any advice or information, I am not too proud to listen and learn.
Thank You

Hi Paul, great to see you here!! I certainly hope someone will sell to you even if its pups in Jan looking at the long term plan!! Working together is the key!
I would buy from you if I was in the market.

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by orkwolf

Can anyone help?
I want to improve the lines of CsV in the UK, dogs with low hip score and free of DM, can anyone help? It seems like there is NO help or advice being given to people who want to breed pure CsV in the UK, just people complaining.
Yes I have bred pure CsV with 3/4 CsV bitches, when NO ONE will sell a pure bitch & no one is prepared to help then you make do with what is available. I can see how strongly the European CsV owners and club want to keep their breed pure and I want to also do the same, so I come to you for advice and help.
I want 2 pure breeding bitches 15 to 20 months old to breed with. I want low hip scores & DM free. CAN anyone or IS anyone prepared to help promote a new healthy pure line in the UK to a serious breeder who is determined to promote healthy dogs that are kept and bred in exceptional facilities in the UK? Many breeders lie & are stabbing each other in the back here instead of getting together to promote what is best & good for the CsV.
There are even certain breeders who are trying to lie about me to stop me getting bitches to breed with, I can only think this is out of jealously as I have never wronged anybody.
There are many unscrupulous breeders with dirty tactics. I have never and will NEVER lie about my dogs, their age, breed, health, pups or dates of birth, unlike so many!
I WILL breed pure CsV bitches and dogs, one way or another but I want to do it properly.
Please message me any advice or information, I am not too proud to listen and learn.
Thank You

hi :-)

i do worry with regards to you wanting purebreed bitches.... as you yourself state you breed crosses because 'not everyone can handle a purebreed' that argument alone is not true...mixing with working breeds of dogs makes them no easier to handle.

also your stud/s are not fci registered or will u not be using them?

also....why not live with the breed before wanting to breed? i believe you have not owned your dogs for very long at all and seem to produce vast numbers of pups.

why do you now want to suddenly breed purebreeds?


eta...yes we got off on a very bad foot,but tbf you threw your toys out the pram about comments i didnt even write,then threw insults at me on a group on fb because i spoke out about crossbreeding....and now you have changed your mind about crossbreeding?.... what happened to 'change your mind'?

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

Hi Paul, great to see you here!! I certainly hope someone will sell to you even if its pups in Jan looking at the long term plan!! Working together is the key!
I would buy from you if I was in the market.

i thought u had mentioned it would be 'too risky' for u to buy from a breeder that produces cross csv's

[pixie]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

i thought u had mentioned it would be 'too risky' for u to buy from a breeder that produces cross csv's

If anyone is interested in getting round that table and taking the breed forward in Britain, i suggest we meet up somewhere in Britain form an official British club and start to organise a stratedgy to get these dogs recognised. We could organise trips to the european events and try to get european CSV comunity to start to trust in Britain again, a long journey i know but it gets shorter once its started. Message me tell me where you would like to meet and lets get started.

[pixie]

Oh and just because someone bred mixes in the past dosent mean they should be excluded, this is a new start, so lets all get together and fight for this breed in our country, if we do it before October ends that would be better. stop arguing with each other and get it going

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by pixie

Oh and just because someone bred mixes in the past dosent mean they should be excluded, this is a new start, so lets all get together and fight for this breed in our country, if we do it before October ends that would be better. stop arguing with each other and get it going

as in weeks ago thats not past!!!

and im sorry..trust imo is a BIG thing!!.....or it will all end up like the 'wolf-alike' rubbish!!!

[pixie]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

as in weeks ago thats not past!!!

and im sorry..trust imo is a BIG thing!!.....or it will all end up like the 'wolf-alike' rubbish!!!

And to most of us on here but if we exclude people they will carry on as they are lets get a club started and lay down some rules its not hard if we want it bad enough

[happyfeet]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

i thought u had mentioned it would be 'too risky' for u to buy from a breeder that produces cross csv's

I did and I also mentioned I am an owner of a FC1 older female who i brought with me to the UK who is spayed, and how I wasnt a breeder, didnt intend on buying a puppy and also thought that re-educating and improving standards were important!! I also agreed that perhaps not all 'breeders' are or have 'bad' intentions and perhaps if we trust in one that has experience of the breed and wants to work/ learn more link this with the members of this forum and breeders of europe then maybe things can change..no point presuming he not open and honest, by the fact that he posted on here asked to work together to improve the breeding in UK is in my own opinion a great step forward.

I am against mixing breeds but not against re eductation and doing the right thing for the breed! I prefer to encourage such a breeder to with support stop mix breeding and promote pure breeds in the uk !

Giving everyone an equal chance?

still having a dig are we..shame you really need to stop the back biting and focus back to promotion and education of breeders/owners! looking forward to hopefully KC registration of the breed

[Murph]

Excellent posts pixie. I believe in inclusive discussion.... Not petty bitching.
Tupac- I know you feel strongly about wolfy crosses so how come you got your dog from a breeder who does just that?
Please note this is a simple question not a snipe

[orkwolf]

REGARDING BREEDER "ORKWOLF"
After checking out certain members and posts etc I am astonished to be taking undeserved lies, criticism and hate. Why, I have not wronged anyone, the people commenting vocally don't even know me, they have never spoken or met me or my dogs, so how dare you.
I am not the only breeder in the UK who breeds pure CsV to 3/4 cross CsV. Why am I getting slated!
I take the care of my dogs and pups seriously, I have been working alongside my animal welfare officer over the last few months to become Orkneys only licensed & regulated breeder, this should be completed by the 28th October, not the actions of a back street breeder with no morals or regard for his animals!
Its well noted that my dogs are in excellent health and want for nothing as are my pups.
YES I do vet interested new owners with a variety of important and thought provoking questions that have to be emailed back to me so I hold as a record!
YES I give out an Adoption Contract that has strict stipulations as to the care, welfare and commitment to my pup and it also legally enables me to take back MY pup/dog if it is in anyway miss-treated, abused or neglected.
I DONT lie, I dont change records or switch pups/parents on forms, I dont change dates to sell pups, I dont breed super high content hybrids and sell to people with very young children, all information about my dogs and their breed details are readily available. ALL of my pups are vet checked TWICE and all vaccinations done, they are wormed every 2 weeks from 4 weeks on, treated with frontline, microchipped, new owners are vetted and are under contract, I am in contact with every one of my pups owners and know where every pup is. All my dogs are registered with my local council and vets, all my pups births are on record with exact dates and parentage. I only breed bitches that are over 2 years old, and breed bitches with a full 12 month rest gap from their last litters and breed only 4 litters per bitch, unlike so many other breeders!
I took back one pup recently because the new owners had lied about how long the pup was spending on its own, this was a first in 6 litters, I travelled on a 25 hour round trip {including two 7 hour ferry trips, one ferry trip was storm force 8!} to get her back safely and I re-homed her with a loving caring current Orkwolf pup owner. Are these the actions of an inconsiderate uncaring breeder just out for money? NO. So why exactly am I being talked about in this way, what, because I breed a pure to a cross? I will breed pure CsV dogs when I am able to find suitable honest breeders who health test their dogs.

TO THE ONES WHO CRITICISE
Come to my farm on the Orkney coast, stay the weekend, see my dogs, play with them, fuss them, see their two exercise areas both 2 acres big, or see our own enclosed area of beach, that we own, that they play on, see their above standard kennelling, their health records, the £1000 every three months on vets bills, the £200 I spend on meat and food every week, see that I am not making £££££ but putting everything back into the care and welfare of my pack!
The actions of a few bring into question the accuracy of any information on this site.
I take immense offence to the comments that have been made about me and can prove they are lies so REMEMBER putting incorrect, miss-leading hateful remarks and lies on public forums like this will lead to prosecution an these ones being sued!!
I am watching very carefully certain ones who have for unknown reasons taken to libel and slander, MARK MY WORDS I will sue you if you continue, YOU know who you are. I am doing nothing wrong, but certain ones actions here are illegal.
Thank you
Paul Collins. ORKWOLF

[happyfeet]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

as in weeks ago thats not past!!!

and im sorry..trust imo is a BIG thing!!.....or it will all end up like the 'wolf-alike' rubbish!!!

oh dear, did paul also turn you down when he vetted you like the other breeder did.seems very much like you have a bug to bare! give him chance to reply to you and yes would be fab to get a group together!!

[pixie]

I am against mixing breeds but not against re eductation and doing the right thing for the breed! I prefer to encourage such a breeder to with support stop mix breeding and promote pure breeds in the uk !

Giving everyone an equal chance?

I agree please lets stop all this bickering and look at the bigger picture,