Saarloos in the uk

[Morgaine]

They are considerd wolfhybrids and therefore fall under the dwaa (dangerous wild animals act) Unfortunatly eventhough defra makes up these rules they do not know how they need to aplly in practice. I've been busy for ages with defra trying to figure out how i can import my Saarloos wolfdog for holiday or for good if i decide to move to the uk.
What they said to me was i need to contact the local authority of the place i would want to go for holiday, they will decide if you need a liscence or if they will be discrete and cosider it a domestic dog.
What bothers me is that even i have permission of, lets say Glastonbury (my favorite place in the uk) to bring my dog, i could still end up having trouble at the uk borders.
I hope you understand what i am trying to say because i am having a hard time trying to explain it in english.

There is a little bit of hope though because there are changes plannend in the wild animal act wich will go on force on the 6th of April.

This is the email i got yesterday from defra:

SAARLOOS WOLFDOG

Thank you for your further email of 8 February about your Saarloos wolfdog. I have been asked to reply.

There are currently no further updates on the revision of the Dangerous Wild Animals Act. The Animal Welfare Act 2006 comes into force on 6 April this year and more information should be available around that time. All updates will be published on Defra’s website at http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-cou...wd/wildact.htm.

Unfortunately Defra is unable to tell you if you would definitely need a licence from a local authority to bring your dog on holiday with you. Once you have decided your holiday destination it would be best for you to contact the local authority for advice, as they might possibly choose to exercise discretion and regard it as a domestic dog.

The attached document ‘The keeping of wolf-hybrids in Great Britain’ may be of interest to you.

Yours sincerely

Julie Tucker
Defra - Customer Contact Unit

[Morgaine]

hmmm seems i haven't been reading it very well, she talks about the animalwellfare act and not the DWAA. Looks like there is not going to change anything after all

[Morgaine]

This is the email i received last year, this one definitly mentiones changes in the wild animals act. I find this all very confusing!

SAARLOOS WOLFDOG

Thank you for your email of 16 November about enquiring about the wolfdogs in the UK. I have been asked to reply.

The Dangerous Wild Animals Act is currently under review. Following consultations in 2001/2 and 2004, and advice from a panel of experts, changes to the 1976 Act's schedule are now planned for 2007 alongside the Animal Welfare Bill coming into force. Final decisions on the detail of the amendments will be taken at that time. In the meantime, the existing Schedule remains in force.

The Act regulates the keeping of certain kinds of dangerous animals as pets. Licences are required for any animal which appears on a schedule to the Act. Wolf-dog hybrids are not a true species but rather a hybrid of the domestic dog crossed with the wolf. Such animals technically fall within the Act's catch-all listing of all species of Canidae (i.e. the dog family) with certain exceptions such as Canis familiaris, the domestic dog. Our policy is that such animals are included in the Act's listing and therefore require licensing.

In the UK local authorities are responsible for licensing and enforcement under the Act. If an animal is many generations removed from the wolf ancestor and is essentially indistinguishable from a domestic dog in appearance and behaviour, then a local authority might conceivably choose to exercise discretion and regard it as a domestic dog, but this will of course have to be decided by them and not the owner.

With regard to importing an animal into Great Britain that is listed on the schedule to the Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976, the owner will need to obtain a licence from the local authority where the wolfdog will be residing before it can be brought into this country. It is the responsibility of the owner or keeper of the animal to notify the appropriate UK local authority if they intend to import an animal which may technically be subject to the Act.

Yours sincerely

Julie Tucker
Customer Contact Unit

[Morgaine]

I wich i could edit my messages, these messages were meant as a reply to some else's topic about this, by mistake i made a new topic

[Joswolf]

What i donot untherstand is, he Saarloos is a dog, canis lupus Familiaris and nothing else. After F4 cross it is nolonger a hybride. In many other dogs is sometimes a wolf used, Elsation Husky's...So were is the problem? The word wolf, but what about Irisch Wolfdog?

Jos

[Rona]

If an animal is many generations removed from the wolf ancestor and is essentially indistinguishable from a domestic dog in appearance and behaviour, then a local authority might conceivably choose to exercise discretion and regard it as a domestic dog, but this will of course have to be decided by them and not the owner.

Al last DEFRA openly provided the reason of the SH and CSV ban in the UK! Saarloses and CSVs simply look too wolfish for British clerks to be able to distinguish them from pure wolves. Maybe a short kynological training for a few people in the UK would finally solve the problem?

[Joswolf]

Yes, someone should train them in finding the differces between saarloos and wolfs. The behavour allthough is doglike. I have wolfdogs and wolfs and dingo's and i think i should now.
Jos

[Morgaine]

Originally Posted by Rona

[
Al last DEFRA openly provided the reason of the SH and CSV ban in the UK! Saarloses and CSVs simply look too wolfish for British clerks to be able to distinguish them from pure wolves. Maybe a short kynological training for a few people in the UK would finally solve the problem?

Then what about these nortern inuit and tamaskan dogs, bred to look like a wolf without the wolfblood. Or even husky's? They look still very wolfish.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Morgaine

Then what about these nortern inuit and tamaskan dogs, bred to look like a wolf without the wolfblood. Or even husky's? They look still very wolfish.

Exactly!!! This shows the absurd of the DEFRA's statement!

[Joswolf]

Very exactly but if it not the looks and not an Hybride(F5) then it must be the name.
Sad that it is so difficult or even Almost imposible couse it is such a wonderfull breed. Dangerous are other dog that we humans selectively breeded. I like the UK even married in Guernsy. But i will not move to the UK, i love my Wolfdogs to much. And i don's want to put my puppy in danger.
Sorry fouks, but you are really missing something.
Jos

[nanouk]

In that they are missing something great in the UK you are right Jos!
But i doubt it can be blamed on the name.

It is more in fear of the unknown, uncertainty about wolf heritage and people like highland- wolf, american wolfdog owners /where in some cases the wolfpercentage stated can be questioned etc that makes them in the UK doubt ALL wolfdogs (as in dogs with recent wolf heritage)in general.
IMHO opinion by fear of the 'hybrid' they toss out the baby (SWD AND TWD) with the badingwater
Without wanting to sound judgemental, it is not too long ago that it was close to impossible (long quarantaines) to travel with any dog , regardless of breed, from the mainland to the UK; give or take a couple decades and they might also warm up to the 2 FCI acknowledged wolfdogs.

[Joswolf]

Better lern to reconice a practikle joke,what's in a name.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Morgaine

They are considerd wolfhybrids and therefore fall under the dwaa (dangerous wild animals act) Unfortunatly eventhough defra makes up these rules they do not know how they need to aplly in practice. I've been busy for ages with defra trying to figure out how i can import my Saarloos wolfdog for holiday or for good if i decide to move to the uk.
What they said to me was i need to contact the local authority of the place i would want to go for holiday, they will decide if you need a liscence or if they will be discrete and cosider it a domestic dog.
What bothers me is that even i have permission of, lets say Glastonbury (my favorite place in the uk) to bring my dog, i could still end up having trouble at the uk borders.
I hope you understand what i am trying to say because i am having a hard time trying to explain it in english.

There is a little bit of hope though because there are changes plannend in the wild animal act wich will go on force on the 6th of April.

This is the email i got yesterday from defra:

SAARLOOS WOLFDOG

Thank you for your further email of 8 February about your Saarloos wolfdog. I have been asked to reply.

There are currently no further updates on the revision of the Dangerous Wild Animals Act. The Animal Welfare Act 2006 comes into force on 6 April this year and more information should be available around that time. All updates will be published on Defra’s website at http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-cou...wd/wildact.htm.

Unfortunately Defra is unable to tell you if you would definitely need a licence from a local authority to bring your dog on holiday with you. Once you have decided your holiday destination it would be best for you to contact the local authority for advice, as they might possibly choose to exercise discretion and regard it as a domestic dog.

The attached document ‘The keeping of wolf-hybrids in Great Britain’ may be of interest to you.

Yours sincerely

Julie Tucker
Defra - Customer Contact Unit

Hi I entered uk only last weekend with a male SAARLOOS this dog is on the Euopean passport it is NOT illegal to enter the uk with a saarloos, the law is made by government published by DEFRA but it is the local councils that decide if your dog needs lience, there are 18 Czechoslovakian wolfdogs in uk there are now 6 Saarloos not one has license,,as long as your paperwork is correct you can enter uk,, you have contacted DEFRA they will tell you things as they are not 100% sure of the law, it really is a joke, we hope that in 2007 we can get the law changed it has taken a long time to try and educate here but we will not give up,regards paul winder

[nanouk]

Originally Posted by pacino

Hi I entered uk only last weekend with a male SAARLOOS this dog is on the Euopean passport it is NOT illegal to enter the uk with a saarloos, the law is made by government published by DEFRA but it is the local councils that decide if your dog needs lience, there are 18 Czechoslovakian wolfdogs in uk there are now 6 Saarloos not one has license,,as long as your paperwork is correct you can enter uk,, you have contacted DEFRA they will tell you things as they are not 100% sure of the law, it really is a joke, we hope that in 2007 we can get the law changed it has taken a long time to try and educate here but we will not give up,regards paul winder

HI Paul, That is good news, casue i remember the difficulties you hd after your firts litter well. Than the work you did seems to have paid up!

One thing that interests me however, if you breed , do the puppies get offcial papers when the sire and dame have offical papers?

[Joswolf]

There is anpther problem left. You cannot get the Pup into UK before it is 12 weeks. It is not a big problem but the rabies is (allthough better) not like other countrys.
Jos

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

You can´t get it there before ist is about 10 month!

Ina

[Joswolf]

10 Months where unexatable. My information was never for 12 weeks but the blood must be tested but i am not so sure. 12 weeks i could live with but not with 10 months.
Jos

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

The first rabies shot is with 12 weeks and even if you don´t do a second one one month later (what would be wise) you have to wait 30 days for the blood sample. For the Uk you need another period of 6 month after the blood sample before you can enter the country even if there is a high enough antibody titer. You can find everything under pet travel sheme on google.
All in all the dog will be at least 10 month of age.

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Joswolf

10 Months where unexatable. My information was never for 12 weeks but the blood must be tested but i am not so sure. 12 weeks i could live with but not with 10 months.
Jos

Hi Jos,

Here you can find everything about UK rules:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quar...res/owners.htm

And because I know you also speak Dutch here a link for a Dutch pdf with info about a lot more country's;

http://www.knmvd.nl/uri/?uri=AMGATE_...CH_L1264157012

mijke

[Joswolf]

Thanks Mijke. I look through it. But 10 months is not an option.
gr Jos