British Kennel Club Recognition

[Maddie]

IMO, what is needed to form the basis for the KC registration and to build up relations within europe is trust, plain and simple. and to attain this, both breeders and owners need to be upfront about their motives, past, present and future.

i don't think "ruling out" owners of mongrels will change much, because it is the owners themselves and their attitudes that will be the driving force behind the recognition overall. obviously pure bred CsV's are an important and vital factor to it all, but i dont think its right the rule out others just because they haven't got a pure CsV.

i mean, take myself for example, i don't own a csv, therefore i have just as much of a standing as somebody who owns a mongrel, does that mean i am also not passionate about the breed?

[Shadowlands]

Would you not welcome lovers of the breed who are not yet owners? I am not sure the kennel club stipulates that all members of a club MUST be current owners (although, I don't know this for a fact, so please correct me if I am wrong). The registry of dogs must only contain pure bred CsV's (FCI registered or not, as this is what your ultimate goal is). I agree on the non inclusion (clumsy, but seemed nicer than exclusion ) of current 'breeders' who breed mixes though - they will have to get their own settlement with the KC first, independent of the pure CsV club, or it will make a mockery of what you are trying to do. Your hardest bit is going to be trying to find the pure dogs without the help of these 'breeders', but I am not sure if your initial list needs to be exhaustive (once recognition is achieved, dogs can be added retrospectively - again, someone correct me if I am wrong).

By including people who hope to become owners in the future (near or distant), you are ensuring your club can continue to grow. You will be bringing in lots of varied experiences and opinions which can all be added to the 'melting pot'. You will also be able to address the breeding pool issue easier if prospective owners are planning to import from various kennels.

As for suspect dogs because of the CW issue - I don't think you can exclude them entirely at this point since they are still FCI recognised. It may be at some point in the future that some will have to be removed from the recognition, but that will be happening on a world-wide scale, so the KC cannot blame you for including them now.

Well done for getting the ball rolling and lots of luck

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Maddie

IMO, what is needed to form the basis for the KC registration and to build up relations within europe is trust, plain and simple. and to attain this, both breeders and owners need to be upfront about their motives, past, present and future.

i don't think "ruling out" owners of mongrels will change much, because it is the owners themselves and their attitudes that will be the driving force behind the recognition overall. obviously pure bred CsV's are an important and vital factor to it all, but i dont think its right the rule out others just because they haven't got a pure CsV.

i mean, take myself for example, i don't own a csv, therefore i have just as much of a standing as somebody who owns a mongrel, does that mean i am also not passionate about the breed?

i think you took the post wrong....but tbf maddie it is important imo that the people behind this have the right motives(owning a mongrel and breeding mongrels are two different things imo),also if we want the dogs we already have here registered they can be no 'doubt' they are pure csv or it would be a 'mockery' and pointless.

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by Tassle

I would be willing to help in any way I could, but that rules me out.

Originally Posted by Maddie

IMO, what is needed to form the basis for the KC registration and to build up relations within europe is trust, plain and simple. and to attain this, both breeders and owners need to be upfront about their motives, past, present and future.

i don't think "ruling out" owners of mongrels will change much, because it is the owners themselves and their attitudes that will be the driving force behind the recognition overall. obviously pure bred CsV's are an important and vital factor to it all, but i dont think its right the rule out others just because they haven't got a pure CsV.

i mean, take myself for example, i don't own a csv, therefore i have just as much of a standing as somebody who owns a mongrel, does that mean i am also not passionate about the breed?

Sorry, but I still did not make myself clear. "Active group" in my mind, in the future could become the core of the British CSV Club. Support such a club can anyone who's intentions are clear, and honest. If he is a owner of a hybrid, or a dog of another breed, no interferes. Shouldn’t be a member of a club, and his mixed dog / bitch cannot participate in reproduction. I know several people who do not have a CSV and are supporting CSV community really great. So I don’t think you are out.

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Maddie

IMO, what is needed to form the basis for the KC registration and to build up relations within europe is trust, plain and simple. and to attain this, both breeders and owners need to be upfront about their motives, past, present and future.

Well said Maddie, pity not many are like this just yet...

Unfortunately, the current 'breeders' past motives have been to mix to make money (they are not doing it to preserve or improve a breed, so what other reason is there?) - and they don't see anything wrong in that , so if they now want to breed pure, who can blame others for being a bit suspicious of their change of heart, and the true motives behind that?

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Would you not welcome lovers of the breed who are not yet owners? I am not sure the kennel club stipulates that all members of a club MUST be current owners (although, I don't know this for a fact, so please correct me if I am wrong). The registry of dogs must only contain pure bred CsV's (FCI registered or not, as this is what your ultimate goal is). I agree on the non inclusion (clumsy, but seemed nicer than exclusion ) of current 'breeders' who breed mixes though - they will have to get their own settlement with the KC first, independent of the pure CsV club, or it will make a mockery of what you are trying to do. Your hardest bit is going to be trying to find the pure dogs without the help of these 'breeders', but I am not sure if your initial list needs to be exhaustive (once recognition is achieved, dogs can be added retrospectively - again, someone correct me if I am wrong).

By including people who hope to become owners in the future (near or distant), you are ensuring your club can continue to grow. You will be bringing in lots of varied experiences and opinions which can all be added to the 'melting pot'. You will also be able to address the breeding pool issue easier if prospective owners are planning to import from various kennels.

As for suspect dogs because of the CW issue - I don't think you can exclude them entirely at this point since they are still FCI recognised. It may be at some point in the future that some will have to be removed from the recognition, but that will be happening on a world-wide scale, so the KC cannot blame you for including them now.

Well done for getting the ball rolling and lots of luck

where has anyone said they would exclude non owners? that would be a ridiculous thing to do....its not a cult

i think i worry about the cw dogs as our csv population is so small,if there is any doubt i do not think they should be bred from...if it turns out they have to be 'removed' that would be half the population already 'mutts' and the whole thing would be 'laughable' imo

[Maddie]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

i think you took the post wrong....but tbf maddie it is important imo that the people behind this have the right motives(owning a mongrel and breeding mongrels are two different things imo),also if we want the dogs we already have here registered they can be no 'doubt' they are pure csv or it would be a 'mockery' and pointless.

i agree totally about the owning a mongrel and breeding mongrels ... if a "breeder" is happy breeding mongrels and can't see the damage that they are causing then they have no right to form the basis of a breed that they are in effect ruining. whereas owners of mongrels may well own them for a number of reasons which doesn't include "wolfy looking".

i also agree with you when you say that there can be no doubt of the purity of the dogs that are registered for the KC recognition, as there needs to be solid and pure bloodlines present for this breed to move forward.

please dont take me wrong, im not trying to stand up for the breeders of mixes. i just dont think its right to rule out anybody else with involvement/a passion for the csv.

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

where has anyone said they would exclude non owners? that would be a ridiculous thing to do....its not a cult

i think i worry about the cw dogs as our csv population is so small,if there is any doubt i do not think they should be bred from...if it turns out they have to be 'removed' that would be half the population already 'mutts' and the whole thing would be 'laughable' imo

I was responding to Tassle's post

I agree that suspect dogs should not be included in any breeding plans but, until proven otherwise, they can be in the list of pure CsV's living in the UK. Not all dogs/bitches on the list will be for breeding, they are just there 'cos they are pure bred and representative of the breed standard. For recognition you need a minimum number of dogs, so they need to be in there for that reason at least

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Maddie

i agree totally about the owning a mongrel and breeding mongrels ... if a "breeder" is happy breeding mongrels and can't see the damage that they are causing then they have no right to form the basis of a breed that they are in effect ruining. whereas owners of mongrels may well own them for a number of reasons which doesn't include "wolfy looking".

i also agree with you when you say that there can be no doubt of the purity of the dogs that are registered for the KC recognition, as there needs to be solid and pure bloodlines present for this breed to move forward.

please dont take me wrong, im not trying to stand up for the breeders of mixes. i just dont think its right to rule out anybody else with involvement/a passion for the csv.

im with you on that maddie...but u know that

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

I was responding to Tassle's post

I agree that suspect dogs should not be included in any breeding plans but, until proven otherwise, they can be in the list of pure CsV's living in the UK. Not all dogs/bitches on the list will be for breeding, they are just there 'cos they are pure bred and representative of the breed standard. For recognition you need a minimum number of dogs, so they need to be in there for that reason at least

agreed! hence why i put 'not be bred from' ....but sadly most csv owners here want to breed...and will do..regardless

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

agreed! hence why i put 'not be bred from' ....but sadly most csv owners here want to breed...and will do..regardless

sad times...

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Well said Maddie, pity not many are like this just yet...

Unfortunately, the current 'breeders' past motives have been to mix to make money (they are not doing it to preserve or improve a breed, so what other reason is there?) - and they don't see anything wrong in that , so if they now want to breed pure, who can blame others for being a bit suspicious of their change of heart, and the true motives behind that?

sad but true

[Shadowlands]

How do we get this onto a new thread? People might be missing it since it is entirely off the original topic...

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

agreed! hence why i put 'not be bred from' ....but sadly most csv owners here want to breed...and will do..regardless

And this is why people who care for CSV future here need to be so careful. I'd like to trust them 100%

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

How do we get this onto a new thread? People might be missing it since it is entirely off the original topic...

Need to ask Nebulosa to split it in two threads. Maybe "British Kennel Club Recognition?"

[Murph]

Aots of current owners want to breed but I'll think you'll find alot (hopefully most) of future owners are simply interested in the companionship of this breed.

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Murph

Aots of current owners want to breed but I'll think you'll find alot (hopefully most) of future owners are simply interested in the companionship of this breed.

Lets hope you are right, Murph It would be nice to think that the few real owners at the moment (ie non producers) will be joined by many more.

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by hedeon

Need to ask Nebulosa to split it in two threads. Maybe "British Kennel Club Recognition?"

I've messaged her...

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Lets hope you are right, Murph It would be nice to think that the few real owners at the moment (ie non producers) will be joined by many more.

I know of three pups from three different pure and healthy lines and very interesting litters, that are coming to the UK early next year! For the time being the owners want to enjoy the puppyhood of their dogs and leave the question of breeding or not open for later, i.e. 3-4 years.

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Rona

I know of three pups from three different pure and healthy lines and very interesting litters, that are coming to the UK early next year! For the time being the owners want to enjoy the puppyhood of their dogs and leave the question of breeding or not open for later, i.e. 3-4 years.

Great news