de Louba Tar kennel

JohnMarijn · 14-03-2002, 13:18

Hi Pavel and Philippe,

I'm member of the Dutch Society of CsW and the Chairman is C.A. Keizer. She
is a "top"breeder and owned about 40 CsW and Saarloos Wolfdogs.
She lives in Fench too, in the North near the Belgiun border.
I' ve bought my dog there and the name of my CsW is Kaisa van Rijneckerhof.

John Marijn.

Philippe · 14-03-2002, 13:30

Hi, John,

Welcome to the list... I know Cornelia, who lives 20mn from my home before
migrating to the french Ardennes...

If you speak french, don't hesitate to join the french forum too

Philippe

Xhrista · 14-03-2002, 13:54

The breedername of C. Keizer is " the Louba Tar " and not
Rijneckerhof,and a lot of dogs isn't the same as " top"breeder.

Christa

Pavel · 14-03-2002, 15:44

Hi friends,
I see, that started here little bit discussion about "top" breeders. I dont like
this word, because always is not 100% true.
You must know, that CsW is a very young race and is not "well-ballanced" in
genetical sense. Its the reason, why you can found in one litter so different
puppies. When today somebody have a "well-ballanced" CsW breed, then is it only
because use often a inbreed. And its a very wrong idea by so small population,
like our race have. Some breeders presenting own breed like "top breed with
excellent exterior, working talent and from HD-free line". Its not true and some
owners of puppies from similary breeders just were suprised, when from so
presentated breed growing up only very average CsW. And with HD is it absolutely
lie, which can make very big problems (some of us know just more examples).
I dont want personalised now. But everybody must know, that CsW is a working dog.
The top dog is the dog, which have not only lot of titles from shows, but have
some working successes as well. We dont need e.g. beautiful dogs, but shy. Its
not a target and its against the breed strategy and standard of race.
If we just want use words "top breeder", then this breeder must "produced" dogs,
they according standard and every litter is more and more improve. Its a really
breed. "Top breeder" live for the race and make a representation. "Top breeder"
keep the all breed regulation (basicaly czech or slovakian breeding regulations -
bonitation and HD test).
Today we see by lot of breeders around the Europe, that they collect the shows
titles only and when e.g. visit some of our CsW meetings, where is training as
well, then this "intersupermultichampions" is shy and only looking for a short
way to running out. Its a not CsW. In standard you can read just in first
paragraph, that CsW "... ...".
I dont want put here a strong critic about a CsW shows outside CZ or SK, but let
me write only my short experience. My Hoky is CsW absolutelly out of standard (I
dont want say, that he is ugly. Not. But according standard have enought
defects.). In CZ or SK can get on shows in the best case valuation "very good".
Outside of countries of origin (CZ and SK) we get always "excellent" only and
today Hoky just have 2 CACIB, 2 CWC (polish CAC), 1 CACA (Austrian CAC) and 2 BOB
!!! Only from italian club shows have always "very good" because there judged
czech club judges. Whats can I say about the shows in other countries today ? Its
comedy only.
And back to basic thema. "Top breeder" come with his dog to czech or slovakian
club show or bonitation and there get the really true valuation of his dogs (of
course "more or less", sometimes more, sometimes less

), we are not a best
objective people in the world as well). Same like by English bulldogs is most
valuable titel from Crufts, then for CsW is it titel Club winner of Czech or
Slovak. And now check the results of club shows and bonitations in CZ and SK and
you will see, who from other countries is the "top breeder".
Care about the race and keep the breeding regulations, its a basicaly target of
every CsW club in every country. E.g. SCTW (CsW club in Switzerland) go just more
years on the good way. Have a strictly breeding regulations, bonitation and HD is
necessary. Germany started just now, after years of big problems, to take a good
direction as well. But other countries and clubs dont move yet and are
practically only the group of CsW owners, no really breeders club.
Think about it.

I see, that I wrote now maybe longest english text in my life

). Sorry.

Pavel

michaelundinaeichhorn · 14-03-2002, 16:30

Quote:

The breedername of C. Keizer is " the Louba Tar " and not
Rijneckerhof,and a lot of dogs isn't the same as " top"breeder.
Christa

you are absolutely right.
regards,michael

Xhrista · 14-03-2002, 16:33

Quote:

Hoi Pavel,

it's a long text ,but you write it better than I can,but my hairs go
stand up if I hear the name Topbreeder,most of the time it means
breeding a lot of dogs.

Christa

solowolf · 10-12-2007, 02:16

hi folks sorry to butt in on this thread but at times my posts do not get printed, some photos of the de louba tar kennels in france, i have held these back from you all for legal reasons but now action has started to put an end to the french breeder CORRY KEIZER i can let you see the real truth behind this breeder, here are just some pics from her kennels, WARNING some pics may cause distress but you must see them if you would like a copy of the full disc email me your address and one will be posted, also there are other issues regarding the registration of litters that will be released very soon, thank you p winder uk
to view pics http://ukwolfdogs.com/14.html

GalomyOak · 11-12-2007, 03:45

How deplorable to see such magnificent creatures so skinny and filthy. How many dogs are housed at the kennel? Did the dogs pictured in the mud have shelter from the elements?

Rona · 11-12-2007, 11:54

Thirty two dogs?!

http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/dbase/o36.html

Wolfsirius · 11-12-2007, 12:25

For that, i must say, that database of WOLFDOG.ORG is not correct.
I think amount of dogs not hold true by many owner / breeder.

I think amount is less by many breeders, even, can be more as well.
As i know, there is many breeders / owners, who do not "update" their data's after every dog changing home / passed away.
-Maybe some do not update at all?
-Maybe Margo & Co have not time either to update data all the time.

We must also remember, that amount of dogs is not direct indicator for dogs condition, people can keep dog / dogs in bad conditions, even they have only 1 or 2. There is also "big kennels" with good conditions
(even some, which i had visit) If you look wolfdog.org database, there is many breeder/owner who have several dogs, not only one or two dog, but what is real amount, can be a different.

-Suski

Angelika · 11-12-2007, 13:02

maybe, Suski, but you know Mrs. K. is also a well-known breeder of Saarlooswolfhonden. So I really believe 30 x 2 dogs could be concerned.

Paul, do you know something concrete about the action which has started?

cheers
Angelika

Rona · 11-12-2007, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfsirius

For that, i must say, that database of WOLFDOG.ORG is not correct. I think amount of dogs not hold true by many owner / breeder.

You're probably right, Suski, but the size of the kennel is not the core issue here, isn't it? It only indicates the scale of the problem - it would be easier to rehome 2-3, even 5 dogs than 20 or more.

Paul, I suppose everybody would be grateful for more information and more details, such as e.g. when and by whom these photos were taken and what steps were taken....
You've publicly made a serious accusation - honestly, it's hard to belive any breeder would keep his/her animals in such conditions - it would be totally irrational in the long run. Maybe the owner is sick or so, can't cope and needs help instead of criticism?

Has anybody else visited the place or bought pup/pups from this kennel? Can Paul's information be confirmed by others? Has the issue been ever discussed on the French forum?

solowolf · 11-12-2007, 21:59

hi there were 119 dogs in total when i left in may 2004, this was adults and pups, paul

bengan · 12-03-2008, 21:28

I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything regarding the actions Paul had supposedly had taken towards a breeder in France?
I know the discussion was closed.. but I think an update is justified.. Paul made quite some accusations … I think a follow up, especially if his accusations have not been proven, is fair and necessary.

regards,
Bengan

Nebulosa · 12-03-2008, 21:32

I told him the topic will be opened when he have all proofs officially as the DNA exams, i'm only waiting the confirmation PM for this.
I wonder is why soo many times for a DNA exams...

bengan · 12-03-2008, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

I told him the topic will be opened when he have all proofs officially as the DNA exams, i'm only waiting the confirmation PM for this.
I wonder is why soo many times for a DNA exams...

I find it strange that he has not been online or has used the forum for the last few months.. the longer it takes the less believable/credible her appears.
You could think that he was just making empty accusations, it's a shame..

Bengan

solowolf · 12-03-2008, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengan

I find it strange that he has not been online or has used the forum for the last few months.. the longer it takes the less believable/credible her appears.
You could think that he was just making empty accusations, it's a shame..

Bengan

my husband paul is in Holland this week along with others making there last statements for the kennel club, we also know that mrs Keizer is still up to her old tricks, mrs Keizer has no breeders licence, anyone can check this out by phoning the Frence ministry regarding animals, my husband has all paper work with him or i could give the number, mrs Keizer has recently bred a high wolf content dog called Skog( which bye the way is registered as a pedigree Saarloos) to a bitch called Rubis, ( again registered as a pedigree Saarloos) The pups where born in France then move to Holland at 6 WEEKS of age, this is illegal in Holland,,,, so it will be very interesting (1) to see if the pups are registered as pure Saarloos (2) to see where mrs keizer registers them in Holland or France (3) to see if she goes down as breeder or some other kennel name is used, bye the way to all you people in Holland, Check this out how come Mrs Keizer has TWO AFFIX (kennel names) registered with dutch kennel club,,,,,,this is fact,,, before i go just to prove all i say is true here is the link to the silly friend of Mrs Keizers who slapped this all over the internet to see,, http://www.niawolf.blogspot.com/ sorry this person may not be silly but just another inocent victim of decite that now thinks she owns a pure bred dog, have a look and see if you really think Skog and Rubis are true Saarloos, we know where both animals where bred and by who, this is all illegal and very unfair to new owners and to the Saarloos breed who others work very hard to do selective breeding to keep them pure, we have tried to contact this person but can not as no details come up, thank you for your time regards mrs m winder

fenris · 03-08-2008, 10:38

I think "enough is enough". The way "Solowolf" has harassed this forum and personal wolfdog owners with mischief the last year should alert the moderators of this forum to exclude his posts and delete this topic from "wolfdog.org". This discussions are very destructive and dont lead to any good for the breed or its owners. On the contrary they are malicious and harmful and without any credibility.
Fenris.

Angelika · 03-08-2008, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenris

I think "enough is enough".

Sorry, Fenris, but I want to be informed - and as an owner of Saarlooswolfhonden you should know about these crossbreeds as well.

Angelika

nanouk · 03-08-2008, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelika

Sorry, Fenris, but I want to be informed - and as an owner of Saarlooswolfhonden you should know about these crossbreeds as well.

Angelika

Even though my name is not fenris i would like to respond.. YES , i would like to be informed, but with facts please, sofar what has been posted by pacino/solowolf is a lot, but totally lacks facts... and again and again he fails to back his accusations with any fact at all!

The other website is one of the main reasons i as a SWD owner will only buy in future with dna testing, and offcoarse with official FCI paperwork.
There#s many crossbreeding done with both SWD and TWD, and i think these dogs ending up in the population is more of a threat than whatever healthissues we have atm!

14-03-2002, 13:18	#1
JohnMarijn Junior Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	de Loubar-Tar kennel Hi Pavel and Philippe, I'm member of the Dutch Society of CsW and the Chairman is C.A. Keizer. She is a "top"breeder and owned about 40 CsW and Saarloos Wolfdogs. She lives in Fench too, in the North near the Belgiun border. I' ve bought my dog there and the name of my CsW is Kaisa van Rijneckerhof. John Marijn.

14-03-2002, 13:30	#2
Philippe Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Oise Posts: 304	French mailing list is open! Hi, John, Welcome to the list... I know Cornelia, who lives 20mn from my home before migrating to the french Ardennes... If you speak french, don't hesitate to join the french forum too Philippe

14-03-2002, 13:54	#3
Xhrista Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Borssele Posts: 426	French mailing list is open! The breedername of C. Keizer is " the Louba Tar " and not Rijneckerhof,and a lot of dogs isn't the same as " top"breeder. Christa

14-03-2002, 15:44	#4
Pavel Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,190	French mailing list is open! Hi friends, I see, that started here little bit discussion about "top" breeders. I dont like this word, because always is not 100% true. You must know, that CsW is a very young race and is not "well-ballanced" in genetical sense. Its the reason, why you can found in one litter so different puppies. When today somebody have a "well-ballanced" CsW breed, then is it only because use often a inbreed. And its a very wrong idea by so small population, like our race have. Some breeders presenting own breed like "top breed with excellent exterior, working talent and from HD-free line". Its not true and some owners of puppies from similary breeders just were suprised, when from so presentated breed growing up only very average CsW. And with HD is it absolutely lie, which can make very big problems (some of us know just more examples). I dont want personalised now. But everybody must know, that CsW is a working dog. The top dog is the dog, which have not only lot of titles from shows, but have some working successes as well. We dont need e.g. beautiful dogs, but shy. Its not a target and its against the breed strategy and standard of race. If we just want use words "top breeder", then this breeder must "produced" dogs, they according standard and every litter is more and more improve. Its a really breed. "Top breeder" live for the race and make a representation. "Top breeder" keep the all breed regulation (basicaly czech or slovakian breeding regulations - bonitation and HD test). Today we see by lot of breeders around the Europe, that they collect the shows titles only and when e.g. visit some of our CsW meetings, where is training as well, then this "intersupermultichampions" is shy and only looking for a short way to running out. Its a not CsW. In standard you can read just in first paragraph, that CsW "... ...". I dont want put here a strong critic about a CsW shows outside CZ or SK, but let me write only my short experience. My Hoky is CsW absolutelly out of standard (I dont want say, that he is ugly. Not. But according standard have enought defects.). In CZ or SK can get on shows in the best case valuation "very good". Outside of countries of origin (CZ and SK) we get always "excellent" only and today Hoky just have 2 CACIB, 2 CWC (polish CAC), 1 CACA (Austrian CAC) and 2 BOB !!! Only from italian club shows have always "very good" because there judged czech club judges. Whats can I say about the shows in other countries today ? Its comedy only. And back to basic thema. "Top breeder" come with his dog to czech or slovakian club show or bonitation and there get the really true valuation of his dogs (of course "more or less", sometimes more, sometimes less ), we are not a best objective people in the world as well). Same like by English bulldogs is most valuable titel from Crufts, then for CsW is it titel Club winner of Czech or Slovak. And now check the results of club shows and bonitations in CZ and SK and you will see, who from other countries is the "top breeder". Care about the race and keep the breeding regulations, its a basicaly target of every CsW club in every country. E.g. SCTW (CsW club in Switzerland) go just more years on the good way. Have a strictly breeding regulations, bonitation and HD is necessary. Germany started just now, after years of big problems, to take a good direction as well. But other countries and clubs dont move yet and are practically only the group of CsW owners, no really breeders club. Think about it. I see, that I wrote now maybe longest english text in my life ). Sorry. Pavel

10-12-2007, 02:16	#7
solowolf Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 316	de Louba Tar kennel hi folks sorry to butt in on this thread but at times my posts do not get printed, some photos of the de louba tar kennels in france, i have held these back from you all for legal reasons but now action has started to put an end to the french breeder CORRY KEIZER i can let you see the real truth behind this breeder, here are just some pics from her kennels, WARNING some pics may cause distress but you must see them if you would like a copy of the full disc email me your address and one will be posted, also there are other issues regarding the registration of litters that will be released very soon, thank you p winder uk to view pics http://ukwolfdogs.com/14.html

11-12-2007, 03:45	#8
GalomyOak Howling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 436	How deplorable to see such magnificent creatures so skinny and filthy. How many dogs are housed at the kennel? Did the dogs pictured in the mud have shelter from the elements?

11-12-2007, 11:54	#9
Rona Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kraków Posts: 3,509	Thirty two dogs?! http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/dbase/o36.html

11-12-2007, 12:25	#10
Wolfsirius Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 118	For that, i must say, that database of WOLFDOG.ORG is not correct. I think amount of dogs not hold true by many owner / breeder. I think amount is less by many breeders, even, can be more as well. As i know, there is many breeders / owners, who do not "update" their data's after every dog changing home / passed away. -Maybe some do not update at all? -Maybe Margo & Co have not time either to update data all the time. We must also remember, that amount of dogs is not direct indicator for dogs condition, people can keep dog / dogs in bad conditions, even they have only 1 or 2. There is also "big kennels" with good conditions (even some, which i had visit) If you look wolfdog.org database, there is many breeder/owner who have several dogs, not only one or two dog, but what is real amount, can be a different. -Suski __________________ I believe in the Wolf, her spirit and her strength. I respect the power they have and will. Walk beside them and protect them my entire life. -Suski-

11-12-2007, 13:02	#11
Angelika Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 847	maybe, Suski, but you know Mrs. K. is also a well-known breeder of Saarlooswolfhonden. So I really believe 30 x 2 dogs could be concerned. Paul, do you know something concrete about the action which has started? cheers Angelika

11-12-2007, 21:59	#13
solowolf Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 316	hi there were 119 dogs in total when i left in may 2004, this was adults and pups, paul

12-03-2008, 21:28	#14
bengan Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Amersfoort Posts: 28	Just wondering - de louba-tar I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything regarding the actions Paul had supposedly had taken towards a breeder in France? I know the discussion was closed.. but I think an update is justified.. Paul made quite some accusations … I think a follow up, especially if his accusations have not been proven, is fair and necessary. regards, Bengan

12-03-2008, 21:32	#15
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	I told him the topic will be opened when he have all proofs officially as the DNA exams, i'm only waiting the confirmation PM for this. I wonder is why soo many times for a DNA exams...

03-08-2008, 10:38	#18
fenris Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 59	de Louba Tar kennel I think "enough is enough". The way "Solowolf" has harassed this forum and personal wolfdog owners with mischief the last year should alert the moderators of this forum to exclude his posts and delete this topic from "wolfdog.org". This discussions are very destructive and dont lead to any good for the breed or its owners. On the contrary they are malicious and harmful and without any credibility. Fenris.