Tail

[Keeba]

Hello.

I have been in many "expos" here in Spain. Maybe 6 or 7 expos. And the last expo I have been, the judge said me that the tail must be down. In standard don't say anything about tail. It is true?

Thanks
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MOVEMENT
Harmonious, light footed, ground covering trot in which the limbs skim over the ground as closely as possible. Head and neck incline to the horizontal. Pacing when walking.

[Mirkawolf]

Oh yes, there is. The standard says:

"TAIL
Set on high, hanging straight down. When dog is excited, generally raised up in sickle shape."

I suppose, your dog is showing himself with the tail raised up, when he sees other dogs? That is normal, if he gets excited, but not good for the judge. To be able to judge the lenght of tail and it´s setting, the judge logically wants the dog to carry his tail in normal position, ie hanging down. At least when the dog is standing in show position.

Was it this case, or you think the judge meant something else?

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf1

Was it this case, or you think the judge meant something else?

No, I think it is again the most common problem with the judges which never judged this breed in the coutry of origin and are not informed good enough (never read the standard? ). I heard more times that judges in some countries judge CzW like collies and say "Tail carried up is a fault".

Do you remember the champion classes in Czech Republic some years ago (when there were only dogs from Slovakian and Czech Republic)? Do you remeber the pround males carring their tails up to show their self-confidence. To present themself proud because they felt like CHAMPIONS...?

Simply said: as written in the breed standard it is typical for CzW that "When dog is excited, [the tail is] generally raised up". At the same time the tail carried on the belly (by shy dogs) is a FAULT and I know judges which will write by such dogs the remark "wrong carried tail" (and it really has influence on the note).

But how it is judged by judges which have no idea about this breed and judge Wolfdogs like some "funny" shepherd dog breeds? The answer you can see by MANY italian judges. The same problem we saw by some judges in the West European countries - they think "Wolfdogs must be shy like wolves and they MUST have the tail on the belly". Such dogs have by them the biggest chances to win - most of the winners are just VERY shy wolfdogs. So such ignoramus judges choose shy dogs as winners, they make selection on unsure and unconfident dogs. And write by TYPICAL (stable, self-confident) Wolfdogs that their carry the tail wrong...

One time I get GREAT prictures from Italian owners made on one of the dog shows. By the females there were 3 bitches. The winner (and "excellent") was a female which was so scared that she was only lying on the ground while the judge tried do check her teeth. Second place and also "excelent" was a shy female which had her tail on the belly. The 3rd normal behaving female which was not even a little bit shy get the note "very good"... She was not "wolfish" (read: not shy) enough.....

So Keeba, all you can do is to have always the breed standard with you and show the judges which say someting like this that they are wrong... It is really important because we know the chactacter of the wolfdogs is getting worser ans worser in some countries (from one side because the breeders breed shy dogs and from the other side: they breed shy dogs because ONLY shy dogs can win the dog shows in some countries...)

[massimo]

I agree with you totally!!
My dog got "good" by a swedish judge because he made a slight "growl" when touching his testicles...
When Oscar Dora touched his testicles, he made a similar small "growl", and oscar laughed and patted his head.
Often judges experience make the difference.

But sometimes dogs "overdo" it with the tail thing:


by a very proud champion owner!!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

We learned not to mind too much . Caya Zlatá Palz for example got the comment in Leipzig that she won her class even though she has a short tail
two years before in Dortmund the judge didn´t like her because her eyes are not dark enough

Ina

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by massimo

My dog got "good" by a swedish judge because he made a slight "growl" when touching his testicles...

Yes, it is really "funny". I know many examples when dogs with great character get worser note because of the tail (best example was the "famous" judging by Mrs. Poduschka during the European Dog Show in Tulln or the "very good" notes by Beau Issabeau ).
I know many disqualification by dogs which growled or were not calm enough. But STRONG character is not a fault by CzW. Maybe the owners should work more with the dogs but such dogs are still TYPICAL. :P
But on the same time I get really crazy when I see EXTREMLY shy dogs lying on the ground during judgement, which have the whole time the tail on the belly and are not able to stand properly even for a while. When I hear that the owners must gave their dogs calming drugs so the dogs are not scared and can be showed in the show ring. And how many of such dogs get worser notes during the judgement? How many of them get disqualification?

In the breed standard is written : SHYNESS is disqualification fault. So why so many "GREAT CHAMPIONS" are so shy? Why so many judges preffer UNTYPICAL Wolfdogs? It is really hard to read the breed standard before they start to judge a breed which they do not know? Expecially when we are talking about WORKING breed...

Originally Posted by massimo

But sometimes dogs "overdo" it with the tail thing:

No - it this case it is really normal... When two males are walking one by one such tails are "a must"... Such dog is saying: Look how great I'm. How good I'm looking. I'm really proud I'm so nice looking... There is really nothing more piteous than a scared male showed in the champion class....

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

We learned not to mind too much . Caya Zlatá Palz for example got the comment in Leipzig that she won her class even though she has a short tail
two years before in Dortmund the judge didn´t like her because her eyes are not dark enough

We can make a separate topic with the "jokes" written on the cards... :P I have the card of Draco with the description from Berlin - everything what it typical for this breed was listed there as faults... "too long legs" "narrow chest" "fore feets turned out"

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Margo

"too long legs" "narrow chest" "fore feets turned out"

special dog show in Lühringsen: Jugde´s comment over loudspeaker was "every dog in the show is wrongly angulated in its front feet" (I personally would have taken a look into the standart befor anouncing it loud)
The swedish judge that didn´t like the light eyes had the same problem, almost every dog was wrongly angulated in the front.

Ina

[massimo]

Originally Posted by Margo

In the breed standard is written : SHYNESS is disqualification fault. So why so many "GREAT CHAMPIONS" are so shy? Why so many judges preffer UNTYPICAL Wolfdogs?

ehm....I could quote some examples but I would become unpolite...
not only in italy of course but also CZ and SK...Champions and studs...

Originally Posted by Margo

No - it this case it is really normal... When two males are walking one by one such tails are "a must"...

ehm...they are brother and sister in couple class...
it would be impossible to have a male walking so near, unless he looks like a female!!
massimo

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by massimo

ehm....I could quote some examples but I would become unpolite...
not only in italy of course but also CZ and SK...Champions and studs...

You right. But there is ONE main difference - noone is advertising shy dogs as PERFECT in CZ or SK. If there is an shy dog it get worser note or the judge says: "you must work more with your dog". Other people say: "You must socialize your dog better". Everyone will say it is not normal for this breed and it is nothing you can be proud of it...
But in many countries it the judges think it is great when the dog is scared. That it is WOLFISH and TYPICAL when CzW has the tail on his belly... Such dogs are called typical, the best and "perfect representatives of this breed".

Originally Posted by Margo

ehm...they are brother and sister in couple class...

I know... I was writing about champion classes... Not about the specific photo...

[Koos]

Hello,

Here is the second message, the other is unter the Bonitation in Italy wrong placed,

At our last Chapion Breeders Show, the judge wrote on his showrapport of one of the dogs, that the ears of that dog were too small.

So not even the eyes or the tail are wrong but even the ears are too small.

Greetings,

letty

[mijke]

And again a nice joke:

Last year my male dog did get on the Dutch club champion match a lot of "negative" notes. and the most funny one for me was: "to masculin head"
Also on shows here in Holland not every judge did appreciate this masculin dog.

This year the same dog was on the Special dog show in Czech Republic and he did get 1 exelent/CAC in open class males

[freewild]

hi

i know this is one old post but ...

on the last show with furcas we said to me " he have on tail too hight

what do you think about that :



is nice ? too hight ?

must I correct that?

on french most of the wolfdogs are just VERY shy wolfdogs. or not realy happy one exposition
for me a tail hight is the sign as one happy dog and perhaps dominating but but normal according to the standard.

about the standard it's nice but understand realy well its hard

i have read all berfore my post but not a lot off photos for explain all your comment

some judge prefer a tail down because they looks a best presentation on honnor ring.

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by paida99

what do you think about that :



is nice ? too hight ?

must I correct that?

Do not correct it. A male dog who carries his tail like this, is happy self-confident, a bit dominant dog. If you will punish him for being happy and self-confident, he will never understand it.

If your goal is to visit many dog shows with him, you don´t want your dog to be upset, bored and unhappy there.

Screw the judges, most of them do not know what they are judging. What they preffer, is their own personal prefference and very often that prefference interferes with the standard or reasonable requirements.

Look at these male dogs in the last Club Dog show in Litomerice, CR.






and the specialist of "tail high" - Oliver Passo del Lupo


You can see, that it is absolutely normal for a male dog to carry his tail up, when the dog is running (with Oliver, even when he´s walking ). And the Slovakian judge, Sona Bognarova, did not have any problem with that. Because she also KNOWS this is normal.
So "tail too high" is complete nonsense, created by judges who do not know anything about the breed.

[Mirkawolf]

I see the photos are not showing properly, so I put only links to them. Hopefully that will work.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Mirkawol...59224053570274
http://picasaweb.google.com/Mirkawol...59262708275970
http://picasaweb.google.com/Mirkawol...26060952395810
http://picasaweb.google.com/Mirkawol...26138261807218
http://picasaweb.google.com/Mirkawol...26000822853618

[Keeba]

A wolf with tail under I think is a shy wolf, so I prefer a proud wolf than a coward wolf.

If the judge sais that tail would be under ( I think the standard does not say this...), and the judge give the first position a wolf with the tail under, I think is not correct option... but I always be proud of my wolf.

Sorry about my english

[freewild]

yes
i 'm agree with you yesterday he was in show ...... yes......again

and alway the tail so hight

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by paida99

is nice ? too hight ?
must I correct that?

The judges do not like the tails carried over the back because they are used to breeds like collies, and similar...

But it is typical for CzW - in the origin countries in the champion class or working class you will see (usually ) only dogs with the tails up - this way the dogs are showing they are selfconfident, strong and not shy...
But to be honest in the moist countries the judges do know know the breed standard and they saw it is a fault. Sometimes they even preffer scared CzW with weak character...

But back to the tail:
there is only ONE wrong position of the tail - if the tail is on the belly (if the dog is scared). I saw already that in Czech Republic Czech judge gave such dog description "Wrong carried tail" and worser note... No wonder: tail on the belly means shy character -> untypical character for a Czechoslowakian Wolfdog...

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Margo

there is only ONE wrong position of the tail - if the tail is on the belly (if the dog is scared). I saw already that in Czech Republic Czech judge gave such dog description "Wrong carried tail" and worser note... No wonder: tail on the belly means shy character -> untypical character for a Czechoslowakian Wolfdog...

For example a CsW in a show ring like this one?

[freewild]

hi just one question

about traduce about
the standard :

TAIL Set on high, hanging straight down. When dog is excited, generally raised up in sickle shape.


for you what is shape

the first faucille :

or sabre :

because we have on post about the tail

tank's for all answer