Gastric Contortion (Bloat) in CsV?

draggar · 17-03-2010, 01:38

I know gastric contortion is an issue that you need to watch out for with GSDs (enough that you should take precautions).

Seeing that CsVs are bred from working line GSDs - is this also a significant concern with the breed? I hear a lot about hips but some of the factors that raise / lower the risk of bloat with GSDs can also be genetic.

From the pictures I see the CsV's chest isn't as prominent as it is on the GSD and it looks much smaller / tighter (relative to their size) so this is giving me the impression that it isn't as much of an issue as it is with the GSD.

roo · 17-03-2010, 04:20

Sorry I can't answer your question directly, dragger, but I'm hopeful that someone with a lot more experience and history with multiple generations of CSV's will be able to answer this for all of us. I too, am very interested in the longer-term health charactersitics of the CSV.

I can confirm, as I have an adult female GSD (mutt) and an adult female CSV, that I was amazed at the differences in their chest shapes. My GSD has such a broad, barrel-shaped chest whereas my CSV has a much narrower tighter chest that is somewhat "pointed" at the under crest, lacking the large bellowing side expanses of my GSD's chest. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that this helped them run through the snow or something (not much snow down here in Louisiana).

Not to hijak your thread, but in addition to the bloat issue, I would also like to know a somewhat related health question - what is the typical/average life-span of a healthy CSV? Are there any differences in male/female life spans due to their genetically-based size difference?

Thanks in advance!

soniakanavle · 17-03-2010, 14:19

Flint's brother died from bloat so I know it can happen.

And though it is more common in barrel shaped dogs such as the GSD, any large breed dog can get it. Same with Hip Dysplasia, most people seem to think it is just a GSD disease, but any breed can get it, [bulldogs being the most common if I remember right.] And it's not necessarily genetic, my GSD came from Ch. parents who were both OFA 'good' and a grandparent who was OFA 'excellent' [only fewer than 1% of Shepherd get that rating] and sadly my girl developed Hip Dysplasia by the age of 6 months. CsV's seem to be a relatively healthy breed though, all I'm saying is all large breed can develop these problems.
The only health problems Flint has had is he's allergic to chicken [devlops hot spots/itchy skin] and he has a very sensitive stomach but I have him on a good diet and he never had a serious problem.

As for lifespan, I don't know since Flint is only 5, but his grandfather, Ali Reolup just turned 14 and is looking good so I'm hoping for a long healthy life with my boy! :]

draggar · 17-03-2010, 15:45

Any breed can get bloat (our vet, during a bloat seminar, showed us x-rays of a toy poodle that got bloat).

While boat itself is not genetic, some of the conditions can be. A deep / barrel chest can raise the risk of bloat, "gassy" (digestive) dogs can also be a higher risk (I think this factor can also be genetic).

But - more energetic dogs can be a higher risk, this is not genetic (obviously).

Highly submissive dogs are also at a higher risk (rolling on their backs often) - obviously this is not generic either.

Royal Canin's German shepherd formula is also designed to help prevent bloat with the shape of their kibble (kinda look like larger X's from the Alphabits cereal). Even their GSD puppy formula is a smaller version of this.

While there are risks and factors that we can help prevent it (nap time immediately after means and a walk, etc.), some are higher risk than others (GSDs, Great Danes, etc..). I'm just wondering where the vlcak might be on the risk factor. I'm sure their size (slightly smaller than a GSD?) makes them a higher risk than most breeds, though.

I guess if Luna grows into a barrel chested, energetic, submissive girl who farts a lot we might need to keep the bloat kit in reach?

Enid Black · 17-03-2010, 18:07

In Italian Forum we usually speak a lot about Gastric contortion, and I can say, by reading, as I am no owner yet - one day I'll be I hope

- that CSVs can have it too. So the advices that are usually given are these:

1 - Divide the daily food income in two meals - so that the stomach does not get too full
2 - Keep the dog quiet for AT LEAST one hour before eating and AT LEAST two hours after eating
3 - If dogfood is used, avoid a great income of water immediately after the meal. Give just a small amount, and then more after few time.
4 - Check if the dog "burps". It is a good sign: the gas exits from the stomach and the way is free
5 - Do not water the dogfood: it absorbs water and starts creating gas in the stomach (same reason as per Point 3).

That's all I can remember right now ^^...

soniakanavle · 18-03-2010, 02:08

Well, they're definitely more at risk than other breeds, even without the barrel chest, but yeah, it sounds like you know the signs to look for and how to help prevent it so I'm sure Luna will be fine. And don't worry, I've never heard of a submissive CsV

Smaller than a GSD?? What makes you think that?? Flint is 27" at the shoulder and last time I weighed him, was at least 100 pounds. I know females are significantly smaller, but I remember Shetan [Flint's mother] was larger than my GSD as well. I fed my GSD Royal Canin but the main meat sorce is chicken so it's no good for Flint. I feed him either lamb & rice or venison & rice formulas. And I feed him at dinner time right before bed when he's not too active [though he gets pretty frisky when he hears the dog food cupboard open.]

17-03-2010, 01:38	#1
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	Gastric Contortion (Bloat) in CsV? I know gastric contortion is an issue that you need to watch out for with GSDs (enough that you should take precautions). Seeing that CsVs are bred from working line GSDs - is this also a significant concern with the breed? I hear a lot about hips but some of the factors that raise / lower the risk of bloat with GSDs can also be genetic. From the pictures I see the CsV's chest isn't as prominent as it is on the GSD and it looks much smaller / tighter (relative to their size) so this is giving me the impression that it isn't as much of an issue as it is with the GSD. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

17-03-2010, 15:45	#4
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	Any breed can get bloat (our vet, during a bloat seminar, showed us x-rays of a toy poodle that got bloat). While boat itself is not genetic, some of the conditions can be. A deep / barrel chest can raise the risk of bloat, "gassy" (digestive) dogs can also be a higher risk (I think this factor can also be genetic). But - more energetic dogs can be a higher risk, this is not genetic (obviously). Highly submissive dogs are also at a higher risk (rolling on their backs often) - obviously this is not generic either. Royal Canin's German shepherd formula is also designed to help prevent bloat with the shape of their kibble (kinda look like larger X's from the Alphabits cereal). Even their GSD puppy formula is a smaller version of this. While there are risks and factors that we can help prevent it (nap time immediately after means and a walk, etc.), some are higher risk than others (GSDs, Great Danes, etc..). I'm just wondering where the vlcak might be on the risk factor. I'm sure their size (slightly smaller than a GSD?) makes them a higher risk than most breeds, though. I guess if Luna grows into a barrel chested, energetic, submissive girl who farts a lot we might need to keep the bloat kit in reach? __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

17-03-2010, 18:07	#5
Enid Black Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Arezzo Posts: 1,142	In Italian Forum we usually speak a lot about Gastric contortion, and I can say, by reading, as I am no owner yet - one day I'll be I hope - that CSVs can have it too. So the advices that are usually given are these: 1 - Divide the daily food income in two meals - so that the stomach does not get too full 2 - Keep the dog quiet for AT LEAST one hour before eating and AT LEAST two hours after eating 3 - If dogfood is used, avoid a great income of water immediately after the meal. Give just a small amount, and then more after few time. 4 - Check if the dog "burps". It is a good sign: the gas exits from the stomach and the way is free 5 - Do not water the dogfood: it absorbs water and starts creating gas in the stomach (same reason as per Point 3). That's all I can remember right now ^^... Last edited by Enid Black; 17-03-2010 at 18:10.

17-03-2010, 04:20	#2
roo Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lousiana Posts: 21	Sorry I can't answer your question directly, dragger, but I'm hopeful that someone with a lot more experience and history with multiple generations of CSV's will be able to answer this for all of us. I too, am very interested in the longer-term health charactersitics of the CSV. I can confirm, as I have an adult female GSD (mutt) and an adult female CSV, that I was amazed at the differences in their chest shapes. My GSD has such a broad, barrel-shaped chest whereas my CSV has a much narrower tighter chest that is somewhat "pointed" at the under crest, lacking the large bellowing side expanses of my GSD's chest. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that this helped them run through the snow or something (not much snow down here in Louisiana). Not to hijak your thread, but in addition to the bloat issue, I would also like to know a somewhat related health question - what is the typical/average life-span of a healthy CSV? Are there any differences in male/female life spans due to their genetically-based size difference? Thanks in advance!

17-03-2010, 14:19	#3
soniakanavle Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Blanco, Texas Posts: 81	Flint's brother died from bloat so I know it can happen. And though it is more common in barrel shaped dogs such as the GSD, any large breed dog can get it. Same with Hip Dysplasia, most people seem to think it is just a GSD disease, but any breed can get it, [bulldogs being the most common if I remember right.] And it's not necessarily genetic, my GSD came from Ch. parents who were both OFA 'good' and a grandparent who was OFA 'excellent' [only fewer than 1% of Shepherd get that rating] and sadly my girl developed Hip Dysplasia by the age of 6 months. CsV's seem to be a relatively healthy breed though, all I'm saying is all large breed can develop these problems. The only health problems Flint has had is he's allergic to chicken [devlops hot spots/itchy skin] and he has a very sensitive stomach but I have him on a good diet and he never had a serious problem. As for lifespan, I don't know since Flint is only 5, but his grandfather, Ali Reolup just turned 14 and is looking good so I'm hoping for a long healthy life with my boy! :]

18-03-2010, 02:08	#6
soniakanavle Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Blanco, Texas Posts: 81	Well, they're definitely more at risk than other breeds, even without the barrel chest, but yeah, it sounds like you know the signs to look for and how to help prevent it so I'm sure Luna will be fine. And don't worry, I've never heard of a submissive CsV Smaller than a GSD?? What makes you think that?? Flint is 27" at the shoulder and last time I weighed him, was at least 100 pounds. I know females are significantly smaller, but I remember Shetan [Flint's mother] was larger than my GSD as well. I fed my GSD Royal Canin but the main meat sorce is chicken so it's no good for Flint. I feed him either lamb & rice or venison & rice formulas. And I feed him at dinner time right before bed when he's not too active [though he gets pretty frisky when he hears the dog food cupboard open.]