"Puppy Fat" & Coat Length Questions

[Gypsy Wolf]

Hi all,
I have a couple of questions about vlcak puppy development... first, I have noticed that vlcak puppies seem to have less body fat than other puppies of the same age. No matter what they eat, it seems to translate into muscle and bone, no "roly poly puppy fat." Is this typical of the breed?
Also, I see a big difference between Luna and Pollux's coats. Luna has a "plush" coat, whereas I would call Pollux's a "harder" coat. To me, their coat texture/length differences are exactly what I have seen in my other breeds - Malinois and German Shepherds - the "plush" dogs carry a longcoat gene and the hard coated ones do not. Is this the case? Is it normal variation? Or one that is correct over the other?
Thanks in advance for your guidance and information...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hi,

you are right, the puppys always seem to be skinny, especially in times of rapid growing. In many it stays like this - and should stay - till they are around 2-3 years and fully grown. It is better for the bones and joints, so I never worried.
The harsher coat is the similar one to wolf puppies, if the plushier one makes longer fur I don´t know, the very few lightly plushy two puppies we got developed normal coat length. But European wolf puppies are never plushy but always very skinny.

Regards
Ina

[Rona]

A well-built, healthy young vlcak should be fed well (i.e. given quality food) but look (too!) thin. Only then at the age of 2-3 will he/she reach the optimal weight and looks. It's also vital for good HD/ED results not to overload the joints. Regular 'rib test' to check if the pup is developing well seems a good idea.

Though I agree that it's sometimes hard to listen to all those comments about walking a poor, underfed pup, shackal, fox, etc. etc.

PS. I doubled your post Ina, sorry

[Gypsy Wolf]

Whew! OK! I have raised German Shepherd, Malinois, Finnish Spitz puppies and they all seemed to have some "puppy fat" as youngsters that the vlcaks seem to lack.
Luna's plush coat masks her thinness, but Pollux's coat is close and you see ribs, muscle, even the top of the pelvis. But he is HARD all over. SOLID and HEAVY. MUCH heavier than he looks.
I agree - with large breeds, lighter is better. The GSD lines I breed on tend toward leanness until they are mature. The first litter I bred is about 18 months and I have to reassure their owners that no, it's OK they are thin. They will even "self-limit" when eating - consuming no more than 2 cups in volume at a time. It's actually something I LIKE in my dogs - less worry of bloat/gastric torsion! And their joints develop beautifully... They tend to have plusher coats, too, though, so they do not look scrawny... there's someone who posts on this list (I will have to find out who) that has a picture of their vlcak and the coat is exactly like Pollux's...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

You can find here
http://www.twhclub.de/wbb2/thread.ph...tuser=0&page=3
some pictures of some of the wolves we raised for a wildlife-park.

[Blitzen]

I always find it amazing how much like wolves/wolfcubs the CSV looks!

Lunas mom, do you have up to date pics of Pollux and Luna? I would be interested to see the difference in the coats as I haven't noticed this among CSV (I am relatively new to them, and haven't seen one in the flesh yet - being in the UK that is a little difficult!)

[Gypsy Wolf]

Yes - there are some posted on my Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/saradonadei
Go to the photos section.
Luna has a plush coat, whereas Pollux's is a "close" coat - Nebulosa on this forum has a picture below the signatur line of a CsV in profile laying down, chin on paws - Pollux has that coat.
Luna's is more "fluffy" with a full "collarette" and pointy cheek fur and her tail and "pants" are bushier.

[jefta]

unfortunetly your photos section is not visible for guests

[lupis]

Сообщение от Lunas Mom

Luna has a plush coat, whereas Pollux's is a "close" coat - Nebulosa on this forum has a picture below the signatur line of a CsV in profile laying down, chin on paws - Pollux has that coat.

Is photo of Pollux and Luna?


On photo dog on right have normal coat. And on left has much too short coat - not good for wolfdog.

[Nebulosa]

Сообщение от lupis

On photo dog on right have normal coat. And on left has much too short coat - not good for wolfdog.

It's not so easy to judge, they're in summer now and depending of where they live in USA now would be a very hot weather, like here.
Then, the coat will variate depending on "how long already makes that he changed the coat" and "wich was the temperature in this time period", Also my experience shows that imported dogs often shows bigger difference in the coat change than "native dogs" or even dogs that came to the country very yung, for what I know Pollux was imported and traveled alone, so I beat that he had traveled with minimaly 2 months, probably about 4 months (??), already Luna is a "native dog", so does not wonder me such kind of difference.
I think in this photo Pollux was with a very new summer coat, so it's probably shorter than it realy is, as it's developing still.

[Gypsy Wolf]

Yes, the above picture is of Pollux and Luna. In Malinois, I see similar coat length differences. The "plush" dogs tend to produce Tervuren in their litters from time to time.
Luna was born in the United States and has been with me from 8 weeks old, Pollux arrived here from Hungary at about 9 weeks old. We live in Florida - SOUTH Florida and it's summer, so it is hot.
Neither has shed out any coat - both just seem to have continued to carry the coat that they had from puppyhood, though Luna's has gotten plusher.
I don't see anywhere in the standards for the breed about specific coat length. I also see that Pollux's coat is very similar to actual wolf pups the same age.
I am also curious to see how their coats develop living here in Florida, where it is ALWAYS summer! My other dogs have normal coats for their breed, just not as dense and thick in the winter, though I have traveled from my home here in FL to cold winter places and they have never needed any sort of "blanket" to keep them warm.
In the show ring, it seems the judges prefer plusher coats in Malinois and German Shepherd Dogs, but the "close" coat is not "wrong"... why is it not good in a vlcak?

[Blitzen]

Thanks Lupis, that's quite a difference! I hadn't seen a vlcak with such a close coat before. Are they quite few and far between? Both look very happy on their bridge

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hi,

before the first winter and the first change of the coat (if you have that at all in the south of Florida, you probably have to keep him in a freezer for a while...) you cannot say anything about the coat length and the density.
Our wolfcubs for example had a very close coat, similar to the dog on the left of the picture during summer and you should have seen them in February, 9 months old by then...
So buy a big freezer and wait.

Michael

[jasmine]

Pollux has just change his puppy coat , moreover there is hot summer. A male csw will be ready as they reach 2 years old, including even the coat .
There are big differences inbetween summer coat and winter coat.
I surely don't say "not good for wolfdog" But as Lupis hasn't got any wolfdog, he surely has a lot of experiences in this topic as well ................

Edit

[Rona]

Jezebeth in Feb. 2008 just before her trip to Brazil:


....a month later in Brazil:


and in June 2010 (Brazilian winter!)


Compare with the wolf: Macko in summer coat:


and the same wolf in winter coat:


All photos taken from WD gallery.

Blitzen, don't listen to people like Lupis, who treat this forum as his own fighting ring
CSV do have coat faults, but it's a bit more complicated than he'd like to present it. E.g. see this link: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1162

[lugardopoco]

You should see pictures of Iberic Wolfs during the winter and the summer! You just don’t recognize them! In the winter they look like Malamutes. In the summer they look like something the cat brought home! J
We have a big difference in temperature and moisture between winter and summer so the animals adapt.
It seems to happen the same with CWDs. Their faire just adapts to the environment. I don’t think it’s a matter for you to worry. Just give them time and they will adapt. That’s the great thing about CWDs! They do adapt! They are not tied to the original morphology. They still have survival skills! If I’m being to poetic, please correct me.
Greetings:
Miguel