Crying Wolf - kennel
 

Hi Frank,

I am wondering about your announce mentioned above about your litter: On one picture we can see Merlin but on the other it is not Ossa! It looks like a wolfhybrid. Please tell us more about.

I have to tell you that I was 2 years the owner of a sister to Merlin, Myla Crying Wolf. I got her with 5 and half weeks from Edit. She was living with us in the house. I can say that it was really possible to go by metro bus, warehouse under lots of people and so on. She was perfect sozialized. This one thing. She has HD B, what is ok! The other thing is that she could behave like a wolf. It means she could open every car door even they were closed by key. She got out of every kennel. She could jump from 4 meters like a cat. She is 64 cm by 32,4 kg. She was very wild when people came to visit us. Wild but friendly. But she was mobbing other bitches too.

So Ossa is a very nice female. The brother Orpheus now called Magni will live in 3 weeks here in my town in germany Hannover. But he has bad hips he has HD D! So if Edit did HD-Test Xrayed the hips pf Ossa, I am wondering why it doesn´t stand on www.wolfdog.org?

So Frank, what is wrong? But it is true you have made a real nice litter!!! And I remember when I saw the puppies with 5,5 weeks that the 4 boys were really calm and the two ladies had lots of power.

So it is not so bad as some here mean. I own now U´Tala z Molu Es. Myla is with a friend of mine who had more time to look for her and he has 13 years experience. She was also mobbing my Briard boy. And because he is a gentleman he did nothing. It was very hard for me to give her away and I wanted her back after 10 days but the new owner likes her a lot. He is not a real friend I know him about a csw breeder who made the contact.

So from my point of view you can´t make things wrong if you buy a puppy from him. But you have to be aware that Crying wolf dogs are really hard ones. They are not like a normal dog they are in some kinds more like a wolf and they have 32 % wolfblood.

Greetings

Christian

Hi Wolfin,

there is a brother to Merlin and Myla he is called Mephisto and living in Finland with Suski. So far I heard he is kind of aggressiv and doesn´t like people. But he is living more outside and has not much contact so he isnot socialized good. But Crying wolf dogs are not easy to handle that know everybody. But they are good dogs. And I could work with Myla, she was just a week befroe companion test. Crying wolf from this litter (mother Mona and fahter Hero) is quite fascinating and even so the parents to Ossa.

Christian

PS: Look for Myla Crying wolf in the galery there you can find some pics of her training with my 9 year old daughter at that time!!!

HANNINADINA; i would like to know where is your info about Mephisto coming from?

Mephisto IS NOT AGRESSIVE to people, NOT SHY, or dangerous.Mephisto was adult as came by us, get used to live outside, and cant live inside the house cause cats, and kids.

(i dont keep adult wolfdog with kids if they are not used to it, basic reason why he is livin outside)
All wolfdogs who's lived with us since they were puppy are excellent with kids.

Mephisto have daily contact with people. He is not EASY DOG AT ALL, but not as you described him.
Have you met him?

-Suski, from Finland

sorry but this your saying is not right

i have Geryon z Peronowki, father this dogs Kondor have Sarik-wolf, realy wolf, and Geryon is very closely with real wolf he have 30,56% and have realy wolf in 5 generation.
and i NOT HAVE problem with hem, he is normal and very friendly dogs.

all problems with CW i think is from not good socialization in breders kennel, as puppys born and young dogs living as wolf, not contacts and socialization training, now he have problems.

i see some CW dogs and puppys in real, and dogs be fatal with behavior. Owners mas very long training this dogs, than he be half normal dogs

Hi Suski, oh so my information are wrong. I am sorry, but I thought they were real. I apolagize!!! So, we get together that tehy are not easy to handle.

Hi Wolfin,

so you see that Mephisto is too not a problem dog! First of all. But you are right that the socialization doesn´t not happen, the socialization to people. But Edit sells the puppies normaly with 5,5 weeks and this is a good age so puppies won´t miss a thing. As Frank and I told you, we could go everywhere without any harm.

Your example with your new G-puppy from Margo. You have a puppy, if there will be problems they will start not now but later, when your dog will be adult!!! But Margo does very good socializaton so you have a really good base. So it seems to me that you don´t know really the dogs from Edit, do you? Some are really shy ones. But a shy one is not a problem for people!

Bye for now

Christian

i'm sorry but i am not a beginner in this breed. i am a breeder and judge of czechoslovakian wolfdogs. i already passed some exams, took part in many dog shows and meetings and summer camps. i know that puppies get adult but wolfblood have less to do with character of the dog. proper socialisation is much much more important. if the puppy has no contact with people it will play no role if you will take it with 5,5 weeks or 5,5months it will stay shy. like wolf.

i am sure i saw more CW dogs than you. i saw many in summer camps, metings and dog shows. and the only one with good character was Karlik - but he was also not very stable. the rest was shy like wolves...

what are you telling? do you know the breed standard? shyness is disqualification fault. so don't tell here that it is no problem. such dogs do not pass bonitations and should not be use for breeding

PS. i know german language and i read german forum and i see that you write there that CW dogs live in very bad conditions and it is why they are shy

Hello Hannibal, Daiva and others!


That's very nice start a new topic with my kennel name! And I'm just woundering how many dogs have you ever seen from my kennel? And please tell me which one's were dangerous,agreesive and unhandable????
And please tell me how long do you deal with this breed , how many pups you have, how many csw wolfdogs have you got?

Please try to give the minimum respect to each other!
Take into the consideration that we work for the same aim and same breed and of course not the same way, but it's not a bad thing!What I like is else what you like, but we are different!
But write a lot of bad things about people and dogs and kennels you have never seen, never met.....???For me is very strange!

Frank never mind: your pups will be very nice!


Edit

I haven't seen any dogs from your kennel and I haven't written a single word about YOUR dogs. We were just discussing with Christian the qualities of shy dogs and trying to sort out if they're dangerous for people or not. We were talking of ANY shy dogs of ANY breed, mind you .

It sometimes happen that a topic may lead to interesting discussions on other subjects - :D

not the quantity is important but the quality. one of the best american breeders said that the best kennel is a kennel where dogs have good live. when they live at homes with their families. where there is no more dogs as 5.
only such breeders can take care of their dogs, can socialise the pups, can take care for interesting couples. so are the good kennels - the rest is just production.

i live in Lithuania - it is very far away from Slovakia and Czech. but i was able to breed CSW on the right way - i was able to make bonitation of my dogs and use dogs which have also the bonitation. i train my dogs so the have also working exams - it is very important because it is working breed. so i dont unterstand breeders which breed dogs without bonitation, without x-rays and without working exams....

i like very much to look of your dogs (i am in love with Galiba) but i write what i see - i see many very shy dogs. maybe the owners are not ok and make nothing with the pups but they told always it was no their problem because the pups were from begining shy...
but as as breeder i have an other problem - it is results of the hd. how you want to make the breed better when you make couples of two dogs hd-b or two dogs hd-c. it is not right, it is not ok. best example is ossa - in 2 genetations 4!!! of 6 dogs do not have good hips. is see ossa is a very nice dog but as breeding dog it is not nice when there is so many displasy in the pedigree

Hi,

I have a female puppy (3,5 months old) of Tcheska Elsi de Louba Tar and Merlin Crying Wolf. She's very beautiful and I love her very much (of course I do). She had a very good socialisation (by the breeder and also here, with me). I take her to the puppy-class, in the car, we go to restaurants together and so on... But I have to admit she's not as social as my other dog, Karma-Jennah van Goverwelle (8 months old). I gave her the same 'education', but still, she's more shy. I think that all dogs are different and maybe it is right that some bloodlines are more shy then others. But I will try to work hard to get my puppy better socialised. With Jennah, it was no problem.
If you would like to see a picture of my youngest one:
Faro-Yuccah Les P'tits Loups d'Amour, she's in the database.

But I have to say that I like the dogs of 'Crying Wolf' very much. I think they're beautiful, but I don't know anything about their character, so I cannot say anything about it. All I know is what the breeder of Faro-Yuccah told me about Merlin Crying Wolf. According her, he was not shy at all and he was very social. And I believe her whan she says that. For the rest: I'm just a 'beginner' with the breed, so I just try to learn as much as possible. That's why I read here on the forum. And I just wanted to tell you about my own experiences with my little 'half-Crying Wolf', because that's what this topic is about! :)

Greetings from Belgium!

Liesbeth Roelants
Karma-Jennah van Goverwelle &
Faro-Yuccah Les P'tits Loups d'Amour

hi...liesbeth...nice if yu have a baby from my merlin-furyos ...y keep faraon the brother (with a friend)and he s not shy my friend take him on his job(fish market in street)he have a good relation ...and it s for that we can say clt are" unique "and one clt is not the other one ....if yu have news y m so happy to have ....see yu perhaps in show in france or belgium or luxembourg ....frank

@ Suski: My compliments for your answer! :fingers1


Sorry, but I don't agree with you!
Karlik (Crying Wolf) did come to us as a replaced dog when he was 10 months. He was not socialised, was not clean in the house, did not know any command and did not even know his name...
But he was a very stable dog who did like to train. :D It was amazing to see how fast he did learn everything. After a few weeks he was used to our family with kids and daily many visitors. And after a few months he was also used to shopping centres, traveling by bus, metro aso. He went even with us to camp grounds and to my work (with difficult young people)
(His only problem was, that in house he marked every time again travel bags and beds of guests and foster kids when he was alone)

HI Mijke! i though about something else. there are two types of stable dogs - very stable with strong character and second type - just stable. i just said that KArlik is not a strong dog - he is stable but not a macho-type. i mean just that the dog CW with the bast character is still not a dog with a very strong character as you can see by other breeders.

regards from LT :cheesy:

Hi all
In my opinion it is not correct to "speak" on internet about a specific breeder or his dogs negatively without really knowing all that must be known.
I know many breeders and owners and I assure you it is possible to find something NEGATIVE for each of them, even the ones you consider the best.
Surely even I can find many many mistakes and wrong things made by Edit Molnar but of course also many good ones, but this applies to ALL other breeders, no one excluded.
I still haven't met the PERFECT wolfdog or the PERFECT breeder....
This thread really shouldn't have such title because it was not started with the intention to speak about the breeder but about a litter made by an owner of two dogs from the same kennel, it makes no sense.

I just wanted to point out one thing: lack of information on this site does NOT necessarily mean that the information is not there, so I suggest not to make such assumptions (no HD xrays, no bonitation, no litters) without being really sure
Not all owners or breeders want to share info with this site, and not all information is considered worth being put up in this site (ex. some bonitations made in Italy).
It is a real pity because today this site is the BEST and most complete tool we have in order to know better pros and cons of this marvellous breed, if only people put aside personal problems...
Not only for wolves but also fro Czechoslovakian wolfdog MAN is the WORST ENEMY....

About Crying Wolf characters: I own Lunatica Crying Wolf
She is HD D and tends to be not shy but untrusty.
I can go EVERYWARE with her because she trusts me completely.
Very rarely will you see her with a tail below the belly (I travel a lot so many people know me and can confirm what I say is true).
I also go around the city center and unless people gather around and concentrate on her, she feels comfortable.
Also again if nobody concentrates to much on her, I have no problem going around without the leash, she doesn't allow to much distance to separate her from me (of course if there is no rabbit to chase....)
Training: ZOP done and we are training for ZPU1. She does a good aport (i think it's Borko's blood...)

CHARACTER IS SURELY INFLUENCED BY BLOOD AND GENETICS but you, OWNER, can really do a LOT to change and improve...let's not always blame the breeder.
massimo

No one wanted to blame Edit and her breed. As you wrote Massimo, everyone (breeder) has his good and not so good sites. I don´t know who put the name of the breed in the subject??

If people were more talking to each other it would have an better ending for the csw. That is for sure. But some people are standing on their rear legs and mean that they only know the real truth. They never thought do meet at the middle. And that is a shame.

Christian

That's right. But the the discussion showed a need for open communiation among breeders who come from various countries. Crying Wolf subject triggered deeper problems. Have you noticed how many times people wrote senstences such as "Pople say..", "I heard that...", etc. ? Maybe instead of gossiping and speculating it would be better to ask politely even the difficult questions on the forum and receive plain answers and explanations? Just like Mirka asked and Suski answered? :)

By asking, warning and explaining, the breeders could also protect themselves and the CSVs more efficiently against all sorts of maniacs, who want to spoil the breed .

Incredbily true...terribly true.
Just like when people speak about breeders and dogs in italy without knowing anything about them.... :roll:

I know Mirka well but not Suski but I have my impression:
VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD PEOPLE, no snaky or slimy arguments, easy communication. :mrgreen:
massimo

Although Crying Wolf kennel requires no defending, I feel compelled to address all the misinformation of Crying Wolf kennel as I own Frida Crying Wolf in the USA. Frida has been with us for five years and has always displayed high spirit and vigor, but never poor demeanor, unlike much of the writing that I have recently viewed on this forum. To poorly broadcast such misinformation concerning Crying Wolf in this manner in the USA would be libel and that could carry severe consequences. A more careful scrutiny of what is stated prior to doing so publicly should offset any future wrongdoing. As I have observed within this topic, and as most owners understand, the talent of the owner is most paramount, not the gene pool or breeder. A more open, helpful breeder other than Crying Wolf kennel does not exist and, as such, Edit deserves thanks for her dedication to this fine creature not condemnation.

Crying Wolf Kennel
 

Bonjour à Tous,

Je comprends l'anglais à la lecture, mais ne sait pas l'écrire ! donc désolée d'écrire uniquement en Français !
Je suis éleveuse française sous l'affixe La Mollynière de Lo'Scale et j'ai importé en France 3 sujets Crying Wolf !

Je suis une fan du travail de Sélection d'Edit Molnar et je trouve sa production trés intéressante dans son ensemble.

A part Rambo, qui est un peu difficile à gérer (mais il tend à s'améliorer depuis peu) je suis vraiment trés satisfaite du mental de "mes" Crying Wolf ....
Il n'est pas dit que je m'arrête là ! ..... :lol:

Bravo à vous Edit !

Lorry Leclerc

Re: Crying Wolf Kennel
 

Alone a translation
I understand english for reading but I not know for write!
Sorry for write only in Fench!
I'm the French breeder with the afix La Mollynière de Lo'Scale and I have import 3 dogs from Crying wolf!
I'm fan of the selection work made by Edit Molnar and I find her work very interessing at all
About Rambo, he is a little bit difficult to handle ( but he intend to improve).
I'm really very satisfied with the behaviour of "my" Crying wolf's
Isn't know as that I stop here! :lol: ( Few doubts about this phrasis, sorry if I understand wrong)

Congratulations for you Edit

Lorry Leclerc

if you think about other men which write here - they also have dogs from CW. and they have their own opinion. they have right to write. they were by Edith and write what they see. do you took you pup in Europe? do you come here? or do you get pup just on airport? maybe other people who write here know more?
if you mean me - i write what i see. and what you can see on the bonitacions - only few dogs passed them and with not very good notes for charactere. you can control it in database. it is not my opinion. but i do not want to say that Crying wolf kennel is worser as others if we speak about character. i just only show that more owners complain in forums about character as by other breeders - but maybe i do not know everything, maybe because this kennel produced more pups as others...

and freedom of speach? you can write "always displayed high spirit and vigor" and other owners can write what they see and what they think. maybe they are wrong. maybe lunatica of massimo is untrusty because he are not socialised her very good. maybe Christan don't know this breed and was not able to train dog so the dog become problematic. but they have the right to write what they think. and what they see.

i do not know the rules in france. maybe it is no problem for you. but for me it is sorry - i wrote i like the look of Crying wolf dogs. it is true. but i want to use dogs which have the bonitaction. if the charactere is not ok - i will not use it. if the dog is too small - and i see many dogs i met was small - too small. my bitch is 64 cm so i know when male dog is as high as she or small. if a male is not bigger as she it always mean male have no 65 min so it is smaller as minimum in stardard. and i saw bonitacions where male was hard to reach with them the minimum. in france you do not need bonitation but here it is very important.

but i know some dogs from Crying wolf, very nice dogs which are not small. but i can not use them. it is because of the hd. you can ask Czech or Slovak breeders and i think International Federation say it - if you make couple and one dog do not have good hips the second dog must have perfect x-rays. Czech and Slovak Club and Lithuanian cynological society are for health of breed - so they say that breeder can not make couples of two dogs hd-b and hd-b, or hd-b and hd-c or hd-c and hd-b. you can make only hd-c and hd-a, hd-b and hd-a and hd-a and hd-a. other is simply not possible and if a breeder make something like this i think he will not have papers for the pups. because it is not allowed and not ok. also the people which want to have pups control it. so i can not use many dogs because if they will see the pedigree they will say i am not a good breeder. you have rambo so you know it. i see photo. he is nice dog but i as breeder can not use he because of pedigree because by his parents and grandparents there is noteven 1 dog which is hd-a. all are hd-b, hd-c...
for some people hd in pedigree is not a problem because if someone want have family dog (until dog have no problems with hips). but i am a breeder and i must take made something good for wolfdogs.
lorry, i checked your kennel and i see that for you it is also not a problem because you do not check your dogs. so if you do not check it maybe x-rays are not important for you. i care for health of my pups and it is important for me. i do not want to be affraid to breed ill dogs. so i use only dogs with x-rays and only with good pedigrees (not too many bad results as possible).
i also see you dogs live in kennels (sorry if i am wrong but i see it on photos). if a dog live in kennel it is not a problem if the charactere is not good. you can close it. but problems with shy and not socialised dogs have people when dogs live at homes. for me if someone want good dog for home, for work and for friend people should never buy pups from kennel dogs because most of problematic dogs are kennel pups.

massimo, you write breeders do not publish all x-rays. now it is not a problem to make x-rays in all countries. so if i see litter with missing x-rays i am almost sure the breeder want to hide them because they are not good. if i see new dog pedigree with missing x-rays i always put there hd-d or hd-e (if the breeder do not want to check dog or not publish x-rays so i think the dog must not be heathly). and i will never buy a pup from a breeder who do not check couples. because it is not a good breeder. it is for sure a mas producer.

P.S.i am not against Crying wolf dogs. some time ago i though to go long way and about cover my female with one of CW dogs. but when i saw they are so small and do not have good hd results and i see it in pedigree i decided not to do it. it is not only problem with CW dogs and there are other breeders which have the same problems. it is not a problem if not dogs are heathy and nice and big from one kennel. but for me as breeder it is something what i can not accept if i see a problem is visible in pedigree...
:wink:

I do not agree: some owners do not publish HD results on this site because they do not like or do not agree or do not care of the !owners" of the site(again, personal matters)
Not necessariliy somebody who doesn't like or care for Wolfdog.org is a bad breeder... :mrgreen:

I assure you I do not DEFEND in any way Edit, she doesn't need me to defend or accuse her.
I do not always agree on some of her breeding choice and she knows it.
I have my own strong opinion about Character, Bonitation, HD, inbreeding, bloodline, Work, and I have built my opinion speaking and absorbing info (positive and negative) from many many breeders, visiting there homes.
I assure you I have visited the kennel of many of them.
Nobody is perfect, but from character/Hd point of view in general (not specifically about CW) I feel I agree with you.
A good CSWolfdog should stand proud, straight next to his owner and not hide like a mouse.
It is very difficult for a breeder with MANY dogs to make wolfdogs with good characters, because the time they have to dedicate to all is very small.
That's why I personally think if somebody wants to take a dog from a "big" breeder (big in quantity, not in quality :twisted: ), then take it away from kennel as soon as possible.
I can make you a list of breeders (and some you know VERY well...) with many many dogs, and most do not have very brave dogs.
Shyness is surely a NEGATIVE characteristic of this breed.
Owners must work very hard to have a manageable dog.
I am satisfied with my dogs, coming from "big" kennels, but I worked hard on them.
massimo

but someone who cares so much that he post advertising about the litter but do not post x-rays is a bad breeder. i do not know breeder which hides good x-ray results.

it is what i saw. if breeder has many wolfdogs it is not good breeder because he can not spend many time with every dog. after it pups from such kennel are shy and people have more problems with the pups from "family" kennels.

i am not sure if i know such breeders very good. could you list some examples? because most breeders i know do not have huge kennels with many dogs living in cages. in our country if someone keep dogs in kennel for whole day he is not called good breeder but mas producer. and i am always shocked when someone writes "i am good breeder and i care for my dogs" and i see he has many kennels and many dogs. many breeders say lot. but it is easy to control them ;) when i see a litter and couple has only some show results but no x-rays, no working exams than it mean 100% - it is not a good breeder, it is producer. we say biznesman.

but many people do not want to work hard. many buy first wolfdog and they do not know everything. if they get pup from big kennel they have problem. and later they write. i know most big breeders do not care if owner have problem, do not want contact.

hello, I had the occasion to see in France some dogs of this breeding. a dog of this breeding types me with the eye "Robin hood"(aspect making me much think of the wolf and especially of very beautiful small ears), the others I find to them anything from exceptional... character point of view, of what I noted in expo, "merlin" seems to me best, having spoken with a person having gone to seek her dog with this breeding, there would be a great lack of stimulis and that is noticed... here is my opinion on the subject which hold only with me...

Martial

Tails and Tales
 

The initial subject of tail curvature has finally evolved into a Shakespearian play "Much Ado About Nothing". Howver, since it has gone onto the character of Hungarian Wolfdogs, I would like to profess that I own Frida Crying Wolf from Mona's first litter. Frida, aka Sophie, is a Hungarian and everything that I expected and desired in a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. Frida is high spirited, inexhaustible, loving, protective and dominant. I would always desire a pup from a wolfdog like Mona. All of those traits that she bears carry a scimitar tail which are signifiers of her energy. As such it is hard to believe that this tale continues. Enough is enough. It is not the breeder. Thus it falls naturally that some persons are better parents than others.
John Slawek

no,this topic is not about the puppy age...and please don't pretend that you don't understand what I have written before!
or...if you don't undestand it would be better to come back to the french site.......................sorry...but I have lost my tolerance in this case.....

Childishness answers.
I was reading this thread because of johnslawek. And was astonished to read hanninadina saying you sell puppies the age of 5,5 weeks. If I want to write straight about a breeding point or another no problem for me and I wrote it this way: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...&postcount=111

how do you dare to use John Slawek for your disgusting intricts?????
Shame on you!!!!

No shame here, please stop this king of insinuation. Reading old messages written by John Slawek to know more about him ? I see no problem. As I told you and show you in de la Louve Blanche thread I don't need any artefact to tell straight people what I want.

The only shame I see here, is the problem you have answering clearly questions about your way of breeding, especillay the way you breed regarding HD. I told in the other thread the way HD allele propagate into the breed. A more adult and serious approach from you would be to explain why you mate dogs with so much bad HD pedigree ? With which statistical results ? Or to tell if you made some changes meanwhile, why, and how ? Why you make mating around 20% consanguinity on 5 gen whereas the time is to take care of diversity in the breed ? The answers you would provide can be useful for anyone, so please stop your childish attitude putting the head on the floor or escaping behind lame answers. It's early time for the breed to think about health first. I can already tell you that the number of disease will increase rather fast, especially heart side. No more for me.

Hi Christian, I know not bad wolfdogs and always asks people when I don't know something (especially Nicole Wilde I consider as one of the very best for wolfdogs), I can tell you 6 weeks is to early (if you need reference about this send me a PM I would send you scientist publications about it), this often leads to hyperactivity trouble (if all is nice with your Myla it's all good, but one cannot expect it's the rule for pups separated the age of 6 weeks for the mother). Wolfdogs the age of 8 weeks have no problem to make strong bond with the owner, and this give 4 more weeks for the owner to make efficient socialisation. All this phase correspond of well know cognitive development.

I'm just wondering why do you think that the hd results on the wolfdog database are correct and complete????? I must tell you it is not correct and not complete!!!Moreover we have very strict examination,and maybe I could bring my dogs to some other countries for better results.......but I won't do that!
About my attitude: those who know me they know I'm very direct person...not hide behinde the curtain..and I'm very critical especial my own dogs...but..I'm so sorry elf...I think not you are the right person who could tell me what should I do:
my results and satisfied owner of my dogs are justify me.
If you wouldn't minde I would stop this usless communication with you!

It's your choice I have no problem about it. But open talk is always better. You know I'm from research world and talk are often rather shaking-hard because people don't often agree. It's not a problem because at the end everyone learn from everyone, so everybody is winning.

hello Mrs Molnar, therefore after what I include/understand, the results of dysplasy concerning your dogs are erroneous?
all d' access I hold to specify you that j' certain dog coming from your production, for some I saw tell you cheer, some are splendid, of the types very lupoide, for d' others ......... but that is normal, all cannot be perfect, and that I include/understand it
on the other hand what I include/understand less, which you a type whom you had recourse tostrong rate of consanguinity in your first marriage in order to fix like, I include/understand, but why still do have recourse to this selection in your recent marriages??
I see that on some that seems to me much better, you vary a little more on your choices of marriage, but why that :

ex. phaedra /Blue = 15.82.....%
Rubin/Blue = 19.43....%
Flash/Issar = 20.50...%
Galiba/flash = 16.06....%
........ i decree there because there is much of it :roll:
thus in come to ask me a question, which is addressed to you as to the other stockbreeders?? Must one hold account of it so much…. my opinion on this question, is that on such a recent race, I find that not careful of the whole, i have can be wrong, but I do not see interest….

At some point consanguinity is need BUT...

- Regarding the genetic pool for the CsV we are already rather far (indeed I personnaly don't know how long the breed can survive without new wolf blood, it really can (as there are enough) but only with an international agreement on CsV breeding scheme, but it's another question...).

- Consanguinity for fixing a type ? It not absolutely needed, there are other breeding ways.

- It as already be proven that high consanguinity:
-- leads to rise up genetic diseases (as 3/4 of dogs genetic diseases propagate thought autosomal recessive scheme)
-- leads to shorter life, in some breeds consanguinity between 8% and 20% reduce the life of 4 years.

So a deep care to this point must be done by future breeders.

HUMMMMM........................................... ........................................:shock::sh ock::shock::shock::shock:......................... ........................................Edit please .....yu can just note one thing ..... JALOUSY ........ that's all ...... this guys have common dogs and nothing exceptionnal .... that IS THE REAL problem ..... nothing else ..... when yu have not a pure CSW(mix beetween white german shepherd) or a common csw (no title ).. what yu do ? yu try to find something wrong in the best ..... good reflexions ..... f

Furyos, I put questions with the person who dictates you what to make, like you n' ace never could answer it, I require of him. D' as much more than you do not reproduce anything d' other that its work in l' together. As regards d' a not titrated bitch, and then?? you n' ace not included/understood that is not a dog is not titrated; it should not reproduce, and especially that the titles n' bring anything to its puppies, put aside as in your case, to sell pups more easily
jealousy, certainly not, like I t' already, I made include/understand do not see any interest for ego d' to have a dog of the style of the cryingwolf, thanks to you let us be invaded we by it in France, nothing good interesting for the control of l' breeding of the dog wolf in France….finally this is another subject. thus thank you Furyos not to intervene more in a discution but you n' do not be able to include/understand

to return from there to my question Mrs Molnar, this one n' no back has thought, I just make a point of including/understanding what pushes you to do that

Very funny Frank it's exactly what Edit said to Margo in this thread: jealousy: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...?t=9341&page=4

It's the only answer people can find when they have not the ability to answer breeding scheme questions (consanguinity, HD ...). In fact in this thread we have two more answers: 1) the database is false and 2) Hungary has the stricter HD examination. We won't have any real answers, that's all.

hi ELF .. BUT WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE DO YU WANT ???? :shock:.. when yu note that it's ALLWAYS this way of bad discussions (for real good dogs) is note ???? allways edit molnar /or passo del lupo /or de la louve blanche ..etc ...are on this sort of discussions / y never note kennel with real bad results on ?? WHY ???? crying wolf kennel win a lot in beauty dog show .. THAT it's TRUE !!! caracther for her dogs are allways in discussionS .... and y prove with volos/blue /merlin .. etc they are NOT SHY ... then yu speak about hd .. .. but mine are A:A or A/B .... and pupps too .... ... now yu speak about consanguinity .... (15 /19 % is not a scandal in a new breed like our breed) and some marriage prove a real good work on ..EXPLAIN TO ME NOW THE REAL PROBLEM???? because a lot of people in europe or other countries like this type ?? yes and some prefer an other one !!!! personaly y like some kennels and not alls !!!! this is human taste !!!! Breeders do what they want in their mind.. it's THEIR RESPONSABILITIES !!!!! .... and we don't need personn like YU !!! who say or think stupid reflexions to help "y don't know really what or WHO ???? good reflexions .. FOR MARTIOU ... NO COMMENT ... y wait the results for this new breeder !!!!!:lol::lol::lol:.. best regards ... f

:shock: too much consanguinity is not a scandal, very well :roll: , it's your opinion, could you argue a little more please ??

Newbie breeder, Furyos, differ of you I had wait for know better the breed before make litters, I hadn't take addult dogs with the will to have pups quickly

MR MARTIOU Can yu write english correctly please ? because yur reply is not really clear !!!! or if yu can't ....try to use an other translator for yur ideas ... it will be more serious .... best regards .. (if yu think (if y read beetween yur words)y buy just adults for my kennel .. yu do a real mistake.. but in my first selection .. YES definitivly .. because y want to see and have exactly what y like in my house and not a black and white wolfdog like yur.. sorry ... no same taste ..after volos arrive and really y NEVER have any desapoint ...)

" :shock: too much consanguinity is not a scandal, very well :roll: , it's your opinion, could you argue a little more please ?? "

you do not understand that?????? :lol:

I believe that you want especially to avoid answering this, because you ace no answer, besides this is not a scandal, cheer!!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

if yu look better in blood line dear martiou yu can note that our breed is A COSANGUINITY selection .. and then if yu look better as better the work in marriage is not like yur work .. put female and a male to breed near a friend .... a type is the work in a selection .. and really y m so curious to see yur in few months .... sure no consanguinity .. but yu can try with a FROG and sure yu have perhaps more chance to fix a type !!!!! y think it's enought to play with yu young and big breeder .... y hope cross yur litter in dig show to see their results and see if their are very nice(or best near the standard) and healthy ....YUR ONLY CHANCE .. to have the male from margo's kennel .. the rest ... HUM yur female is not really a nice female .. just a female for family life ... (good things but that 'all ..)and when y see yur big price(1200 euros ) for this y think YU ARE A REAL BUSINESS MAN !!!!! best reagards ....

still not of answer, you are a champion to avoid the questions :roll: :roll: :roll:

business man ????? me ??????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , not just impassioned :rock_3

in connection with the small ones of my bitch, consanguinity is made in a considered way :rock_3

http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...7818&DOG2=7473

5.02 ....%

look at, but I believe that you are unable to include/understand all that

And please, why ever you attack my dogs when some of my questions bothers you because your incapacity to reply?

you understand ????? :lol:

my female: A67K1M3OdP3 : therefore, for you, a bitch which should not reproduce?? :lol:

For the france: I remind to you that this range is the only one which is currently proposed where the parents have all the 2 the bonitation and the radios
thus your remarks ...... and after you speak about jealousy ....... :lol:

hi again .martiou .... where yu find that y attack yur dogs??? it's just an evidence ..(and please yu write me a private mail to explain bad things from merlin ..ossa ..etc ..:twisted::twisted: stop please this hypocrite :roll::roll:attitude on this public topic and in private yu write bad words ...)hum the evidence is that yu say "y m a passionned" .. but yu do just 5 dogshows and on all juges give yu list of default for yur female .. bonitation too (tail too long /bad behaviour/p3/ dysplasy C...etc ..) and outhout this yu say :"y m professional and y breeding".. BUT THE TRUTH (and all french people know that.. yu buy yur female 1 euro ...one male (apache)100euros (and yu try to do last year a mariage with him.. and he 's from a father (benny) and his daughter( kiloute).. A REAL CONSANGUINITY THIS !!!! .. and now yu sale yur pupps like good and serious kennel who do dog show (national and international)have female A/B or A:A .... and yu are sure to have THE SCIENCE TO BREEDING !!!!! really y don't thing yu are the person who can learn to me(or to edit) something good ....but SURE if y do comptability .. yu are very good ..5 dog show ...350euros/ female 1 euros .. 5 pupps =5x1200euros =6000euros .. hum good rentability .... if yu look in origin country price are not so strong and better quality that yurs ... and if yu look french kennels they pay taxes and yu not !!!!! THIS IS THE DIFFENRENCE !!!!! and the truth ;-);-);-)...good reflexions and best regards ... f

:roll: you do not know absolutely anything in connection with my dogs…. and my answer, like d' practice, the discution is impossible with you, you still answer with dimensions…. :roll: :roll:

......sure martiou ......discution to discredite someone is so easy and yu are" the specialist ".. not surprise to do the same asq soon as YU DO THAT FIRST .......if one day yu stop this attitude .... perhaps y can study to change too .. but .....

:shock: why simply explain you not that you are unable to answer your choices on your selection ????? :roll:

good now that my opinion is made on your subject, i would like to know the answer of Mrs Molnar, is with it that i put this question :rock_3

WHO YU ARE to want this !!!! do yu think really any breeder give yu their intentions just because yu want an answer to yur discrdites !!!! y think yu play in a bad place .. yu can go at school before to learn good education first .... best regards .. f

hmmmmm I realy don't understand why should I justify myself to somebody who has got only 1 dog and/or just having his first litter............................
A few years later, when you have got enough experienses and knowledge about this breed and breeding , and we could see your pups...than we could talk...untill...I'm so sorry to say....NOT YOU ARE THE RIGHT PERSON WHO COULD CRITIZES ME.......

:roll: it is well damage Mrs Molnar, which I include/understand, you have any explanation to given in connection with your selection, just like your friend Furyos :roll: :rock_3

thus you do not astonish that your work is so often shown finger :rock_3

for information: i worked during 2 years in a refuge SPA in Switzerland, in Vevey, i was trainee with French-speaking Switzerland school of dog guides blind man, and i was guard of one of most famous of the breedings of cavalier king Charles in France during 5 years, therefore yes in the world of the dog wolf, I launch out, that now because i have wanted to already know the front race sufficiently, but as regards the selection, I am able to include/understand, but you, you in summers incompetent on your own work .................. :lol:

incompetent??? hahahahaha
just enough to see the big special showresults the last two years.......and my dogs are imported to Slovakia and Czeh Rep...for breeding...
yees.....I'm totaly incompetent...hahahahaha

I do not speak about your dog but just of your incompetence to explain you on your work of selection !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rock_3

read again, and say me where I attact your dogs Mrs Molnar?????!!!!!!!!! I just posed you questions, the same ones to which Furyos forever known to answer on the French forum............

and just like your friend, you answer only what arranges you to include/understand, cheer!!!! :roll:
for me, this discution is finished, I am able to make me my opinion in your connection ........................ :roll: :rock_3

hey...you are always attact Frank and me and our dogs.........
and I have got bad attitude?????????
yees......everybody could hear and see just what they want................
discussion is over

http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...ogs&country=SK

to finish Mrs Molnar, could is you tell me why Enzo Crying Wolf the only dog male authorized to reproduce in slovaquie??? thus your results in expos are a thing but your production is another :rock_3

hmmmm if you would look after more precaisly... you could find more breeding dogs ,male and female with bonitacio in SK and CzRep...
but you don't care the facts, your aim only the shit dropping like some of your "friends"

No answers as excepted (it's long time I did not except anymore for Frank as I know now he doesn't have enough knowledges).

Edit, I'm working with French first national research center, currently on new cognitive learning models, formerly working on Gene Therapy on a genes insertion positioning optimisation.

cheer Mrs Molnar for this superb answer!!!!
and for Czech Republic : just Lupus Crying Wolf
why ??????? i don't understand ?????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :rock_3

http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...ogs&country=CZ

HMMM you have got interesting job...but why did you write it me?
or are you interested in my "knowledge"????
I'm agricultural ingeniour,main profily is reproduction, now I just studee psycholigy,I was working with socialization research in ELTE University ,main trainer in search and rescue dog team in Hungary,member in curatorium in Foundation for Hungarian National breeds..............
And I surly know that there are a lot of things what I should studee more : ))))))))))

try to find more...because there are !!!!!!

and another but important things: every country has got the own breeding rules.....as my country and my klub has got as well...........we have caracter test (shouting, the dog must be touchable,protection work together with owner),other part is the judgment of the dog (exteriour), need two excelent showresults and HD results. Whithout any of them I couldn't get pedigree for the pups......
My klub accept just the hungarian "bonitacio"

You wrote this: "NOT YOU ARE THE RIGHT PERSON WHO COULD CRITIZES ME....... "... and now wonder why :rock_3?

So you have no excuses, you know well the damage of high consanguinity, especially in this breed.
And you also know probabilistic models for HD propagation, I was lately reading HD propagation models against Markov chain, it's just working. So once again no excuse to mate bad HD pedigree dogs sir & dame. So no, I don't understand you, but there are maybe parts I don't understand so feel free to email me and explain to me when you would have time ;).

not, afflicted, there is not :roll: :rock_3

so, I will tell you a story about HD examinations: one Xray was examined in CzehRep and got HD/C...the same Xray was sent to Poland and got HD/A, the same xray was sent to Slovakia and got HD/A and this xray was sent to my vet and got HD/D!!!!!!After this case no worth to talking about Hd results......

Another things: inbreeding and linebreeding is not the same...and please write me what is your problem with my consaguinity? Have I got ill dogs? Are my pups die very early?Have you got any other defects? More than from other breeders? I think no........and why write that I use always high consaguinity? I couldn't see strong relativities inbetween Geri and Demon or Quenno and Demon, or Ali and Rubin or Argo and Queety and I could continue.......
I breed for my taste,for my fun.....and fortunately there are a lot of people who like my dogs!!!!

Fortuna Crying Wolf, Wolfy,Wickey,Ushas Crying Wolf ....
and please tell me how many imported dogs are in Slovakia and CzehRep from other countries and are in breeding
it is another usless discussion

Thanks this talk start to be informative.

You are making several mistakes here.
No let's talk about it. People please share your experiences if you have strong different HD results from different country. I would be very astonished that there is a country very different from another. Another problem is the focus on the letter, does the dog has arthrosis, does the dog show passive laxity, regular bones shape, coverage trouble ? I can assure you that a hip with HD-D really shows troubles visible for almost any vets, so mistery...
Another problem is focuses too much the dog result as the pedigree analysis is very important, breeders argues that this dog is A this one is B, no problem mating them ! But checking the HD of back-relatives and back-back-relative are almost all non HD free, so yes statistically there is a real breeding trouble here. Intrinsic A has not the same value as some other and this should be in the equation. But people are puzzled, because it jumps generations, and it's "only" probability etc... HD probabilistic model just works, so worth making a deep care on that point.

COI between 15% and 20% on five generations is a strong consanguinity, especially if we want to have a global politic/view large scale for this breed. Another error breeders make is to check only for 5 generations, but almost any "non consanguinity" mating in this breed is in reality around 20%, and so some of your mating (not high consanguinity for you) are indeed 40%-45% COI ; this means that for all the dog genome (around 22000 genes I guess) it's statistically more than 9000 possibility for an allele to meet its counter part (remembering that 3/4 of genetic disease comes from recessive trait), this is really too high... and really not needed, nowadays we can, and have to, breed differently if we want not dark future days...

Of course our hd examination is not consist of just the angulation...we have a complete examination form and my ver examined a lot of things such as :position of hip-joins,shape of whirtbone,status of the acetabulum,articular space and last but not least the Norberg measuring. So I think it is complex and complete.
About the dark future: believe me don't think that I would be the biggest enemy of this breed.
And as this kind of discussion hurt not just me but every owner of my dogs I realy want to finish it! I don't think that I have to justify myself....and guys it would be better to deal with your own things!

:roll: I speak to you already about the males having could reproduce as Slovakia and Czech republic .....

after your dogs like, it is very well Mrs Molnar .....

I know well Robin Hood crying Wolf, i already saw Volos, Yanatos ..... they are beautiful dogs, but you still knew to avoid my question :roll:

my question :
"all d' access I hold to specify you that j' certain dog coming from your production, for some I saw tell you cheer, some are splendid, of the types very lupoide, for d' others ......... but that is normal, all cannot be perfect, and that I include/understand it
on the other hand what I include/understand less, which you a type whom you had recourse tostrong rate of consanguinity in your first marriage in order to fix like, I include/understand, but why still do have recourse to this selection in your recent marriages??
I see that on some that seems to me much better, you vary a little more on your choices of marriage, but why that :

ex. phaedra /Blue = 15.82.....%
Rubin/Blue = 19.43....%
Flash/Issar = 20.50...%
Galiba/flash = 16.06....%
........ i decree there because there is much of it :roll:
thus in come to ask me a question, which is addressed to you as to the other stockbreeders?? Must one hold account of it so much…. my opinion on this question, is that on such a recent race, I find that not careful of the whole, i have can be wrong, but I do not see interest…."

or then, your answer is as simple as that???
my pups like and nothing other???? :shock:

indeed, us let us have at all the same vision of interest of canine breeding Mrs Molnar :roll:

I don't understand what is your problem exactly????Are the pups from these 4 marriage bad? Ill? Bad HD? Bad caracter?Small???
I strongly must tell you NO!!!!! All of them are healthy and very nice, promote the type what I like!!!!

why have still recourse to as much consanguinity?????
which is interest now that you did find the type of dog wolf which you seek????
after what I include/understand, finally, one should not take account of consanguinity and we can marry import which dog..... :roll:

you understand ? :roll:
your opinion with you on consanguinity??

ahhh I would like to fix the type what I like...and if you see which dogs and which lines I use it is not too hard to quess the dogs/type/lines I would like to fix.And I realy won't write the names.lines here ,because,I'm sorry to say but as I know you (and your "friends") my answer could never be good enough for you.
I'm realy tied of this ....and I realy finish.
Have a nice weeked
Bye for now
Edit

Thanks for the answers you provided in this thread. I won't go any further as I have answers I wanted.

Which dog? Could you write the name so we can check it?
Thanks in advance!

It is nothing new, that the poland HD results are the most best in the world. I know this for 10 years from the briards - french herding dogs -.

Christian

I think it depends...
I know that sometimes Dutch CzW breeders sent their results to Germany because they get better results than in Holland (HD-B in Holland and HD-A in Germany). But I know also about REAL dogs (not imagined cases) which were checked in Holland with HD-B and in Poland with HD-C.
I know dogs with hips which were HD-D in Czech Republic and HD-A in Italy (it was for a long time the reason why many dogs with HD-C or worser were sold to Italy).
BUT I know many dogs which were HD-C in Czech Republic and were still HD-C in Poland, which were HD-D in Czech Republic stayed HD-D in Italy...

I Germany you have only one judge which can official evaluate the X-rays so the results are similar. But in Holland, Czech Republic, France, Poland you have more judges which make it and don't be so astonished that there are differences between two countries when you can see VISIBLE differences between vets in one country. In German forum you can fnd some stats Margo made and the difference between two Czech vets were about 30% and between Sterc and some other it can be maybe even 50% (what mean: other vets give 50% more HD-A results that for example Sterc).

I know, every breeder say his country has the best results and the vets make the strongest evaluations. And it is not possible to make any statistics because many data is missing and many data hidden. But all we can do is to look which results have dogs in a country and to compare which results have dogs from the same country in other countries.

Jasmine said Hungary has the best evaluation, hanninadina say Poland has the worstest. So we can compare it:

- in Germany there are three dogs checked for HD from jasmines' kennel. The parents are, according to the Slovakian and Hungarian vet, HD-A and HD-B. Lets see the results of the offsprings imported to Germany.
The BEST results has hanninadina's female Myla. It is HD-B1. The other results which the dogs get are HD-C and HD-D.

- now let's take the dogs living in Germany but imported from Poland. The parents seem to be similar evaluated as in the case first case - according to the Slovakian and Polish vet thay have HD-A and HD-B. Now compare the results of their offsprings made in Germany and evaluated by german vet.
The WORSEST results they get is HD-B1. And all other are HD-A1 and HD-A2.

Conclusion is visible and easy to make:
The HD-evaluations of the parents made in Poland are COMPARABLE to the results of the polish dogs imported to Germany.
BUT
The HD-evaluations of the parents made in Hungary are VISIBLE BETTER than the results of the hungarian dogs imported to Germany.

And we can make the same stats with the same countries (with the same results and conclusion) for Italy and France....


I'm sure the same topic will came back soon and another breeder will say "In my country are the strongest evaluations of the hips" BUT sometimes the stats say something else....

hmmmm
Margo,
In this case I think it is doesn't matter of the name of the dog/breeder/owner .......and it is a REAL CASE.....

Pzemek,
We both know that I have sent much more HD certification to you than you put to the database...moreover there are some wrong results.....aaaand I'm just wondering have you ever seen the HD certification about the HD/D dog in Germany??? Because I haven't seen it.............so for me a little bit strange that you put some fals and incorrect results, some of them without official certification, but don't put some results though I have sent the official certifications such as: Juma,Myra,Galiba,Volos and I could continue.....most of all about my all breeding dogs.....
So make calculation with fals and missing results....hmmmmmm......

Anyway: I have never sad that hungary would have the best evaulation...but I could tell you that my vet is strict. And a little bit strange that we start with the same bloodlines, and in Hungary or Czeh Republik are very bad results...but some other countries are almost just excelent dogs.......so I'm a little bit sceptic, sorry.........

I think you just named the BIG PROBLEM !!! "my vet is strict" :shock:

But how can we trust that she/he is ???
And how can we trust that all vets in your country are stict ???
And how can we know that somebody do not pay for a good result ???
Or knows the vet personally ???

I think we can only trust HD results from contrys whit a HD committee !!!

Best regards / Mikael

In my country are two HD committee.....my vet is the member in one of them. The protocol is: he makes x-ray (with chipnumber and noseprint), make a pre-examination for me and send to the X-ray to the Orthoped Committee. We get back the results and the complex certification. The committee send the results to our kennelklub too,and it will be booked there.
In the committee are more veterinars (the best orthoped surgerons), and we could never know who will make the examination.

Thanks now I feel better :)

But the problem is that there are still not a HD committee in all countrys :(

Regards / Mikael

You say so... But according to the stats I would not say that... It is nothing against your vet. Maybe he is really strict compared to others. But it do not seems that dogs in your country are evaluated stricter than in other....

You are right. But it is easy to explain. In countries where ALL results are published the statistics are "worser" than in countries where breeders and owners publish only part of the results and nobody knows all of them.

In Czech Republic, Germany and Holland ALL HD-result are published in the official databases and magazines so we can easily put them into the database.
In Italy there is database with all results but we are not able to check all dogs if they were x-ray tested so many x-ray results are missing.
In other countries we get only results sent by owners and breeders and as we know most of them send only the good results and hide the bad. 8)

The best example can be exactly Poland because we know about many hidden things here... ;) On the first look the stats look nice - there are many dogs with great HD-results and only few with HD. So someone can say the vets in Poland are to so strict because the % of dogs without HD is pretty high. BUT only if you don't know the reality. ;) And the reality it: there are more dogs with middle and strong HD in Poland but info about them is not included in the database.8)
We know several cases of HD-checked dogs which have dysplasia but the results has been never officialy sent to us so we can not include the results in the database. No, the real statistics for Poland are much worser than according to the database because some breeders do not publish results which are worser than HD-B. :roll:
When we will count also cases of dogs with HD which we already know we get statistics which are comparable to the results in Germany or Holland. And for sure the stats are even worser because for sure we do not know about all hidden cases of HD. ;)

And it is exactly the same reason why in some countries (for example also Italy) the percentage of HD-free dogs is higher or much higher than in other countries. Not because dogs living there are more heathy. Or because the vets are no so strict. But mainly because the breeders hide bad results and publish only info about HD-A and HD-B dogs...

Worning for inbreeding desiases !!!
 

I would only hope that you was just as hard when it comes to inbreeding in your county...

Sad regards / Mikael

CsV world record in inbreeding ???
 

Sad regards / Mikael

And you are also on this topplist...

--Delited--

Sorry, not your dog anylonger...

Regards / Mikael

Sharpness and skitziness is something what Cryinf wof not has. I see 0% of sharp dogs in Crying wolf. Only very much shy or very much lazy with no contact with world. I see you friend really has no idea what she buy and take first puppy found and offered. Because if she like what you write to work to have sharp dog for work mcuh thinking she buy puppy who has nothing form this character.

I really much funny.

Lupis, you are kidding or what? Whenever you are in germany passing Hannover to Hamburg, you are invited to get to know Myla and you nver would talk such bully again! Maybe your are able to join the Pro Evolution contest and summercamp from 18th to 27 th of june, than you will see what kind of wolfdogs are crying wolf ones!

By the way Myla and me were in 2008 third of that competition! Therefore you need a stable dog who is afraid of nothing, who is a good runner, a good dog.

Luna wrote respect her opinion. Again, your opinion means nothing because you have no experience. Hide behind your computer and make bad mood again. Or better let us meet in competition with our wolfdogs!

I say what i see, And i interested in working wolfdogs. But i not found even one Crying wolf for work. Show me ONE of your 300 breed dogs with normal working exams - not runs- because for me is visible that your dogs are antiworking dogs in this breed.
And saying and selling your litter like working litter is cheating.

I see you have no idea about working with dog. You are true chihuahua owner.
If you train dog for bite it must bite. If not it can not bite. Easy. Working breed must do what is trained. If is doing nothing is not working breed. If yoiu not like working dog why you have CLC? But somet else dog.

Lupis,

Please show us your working dogs, especial your workin CSWs!!!!!!!

Edit

I can show you real wolfdogs for working. but first show me ONE dog from crying wolf with norma exam. you breed so many dogs so it must be easy.
or i right and after so huge production you have no dog witn work certificate.
very much poor result. i think worst in this breed.

No, I want to see your dogs, your pups you bred, exams, heath certifications , showresults of your ownd dogs!!!! Your OWN DOGS!!!!!!!
Because you always attacted everybody, always critize and knows everything much better than others.
So SHOW US YOUR CREATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

you nto understand. I not lie. I not say i breed working dogs.
But you say you have working line and dog work like malinois. So show me is true. Or you lie again.

I surely did not write this....you misundestud something !! I have never told anybody that my csw's work as malinois!!!!
And the most important thing : Pollux is a stabil dog with good caracter , like all of his relatives has got the same, open , stabil caracter. He could be good for work...that's all what I told and it is true

and as usual I'm not ready to continue this useless conversation with a phanthom, who hasn't got csw, who has never deal with this breed and never sign his post!!!!
It was my last comments in this topic


Edit

what you write is breeder avdertising. I watch character and speak with many owners with working CLC and all say same - Crying wolf is antiworking dog with 0% working gene. Shy or no want to work. "stabil dog" - what is for you stabil, how you can say it if bonitation say is shy?. such word is good for dog as dog for couch and not work. for work you need instinc, drive, aport. what you dog not have.
yxou say i attack you but tell me name of ONE working crying wolf dog. buyed by normal owner with experienes. nono who know you line not buy dog to work. only some comercial breeders who produce dogs for homes and shows. but i know not one who want and can work.

I need to agree with Lupis, most of Cry Wolf dogs I saw surelly are not suitable as working dogs, Im sorry for your friend, she can even pass few exams, but probably she will never be able to trust the dog in real work.

Nebulosa,

Please tell me how many Crying Wolf dogs have you seen personaly???????
And to write about a 8 weeks old pup that he could never pass any exam...hmmmm.....without seeing the pup...hmmmmmm
You know I have never make any comments about dogs,kennels ,people who I had never seen, especial not to an open forum.
Maybe, it is question of inteligence...maybe.....


Edit

I lost the counts already, I can say several, with different owners and in different ages also in different situations. :lol:
Please could you quote WHERE I wroted about the 8 weeks pup? I said about MY experience with the dogs coming from your breeding, what I saw PERSONALLY.

This is your sentence:
"Im sorry for your friend, she can even pass few exams, but probably she will never be able to trust the dog in real work."
so here you are talking about a 8 weeks old pup !

Write me the names of several Crying Wolf dogs you have seen!!! please

And I said probably, looking the parents, what I saw and what the owners of close relacted dogs said about.
Oh, I will try to make the list if you make also the list of WORKING dogs you had, as Lupis asked, but for you have one idea some photos of Jetta Cry Wolf was done by me this year, looking in my archieve I had also did of Zulu, Jesaja, Zelma, Lupus, Czeska, Yolka and so on.

I think is worth warn people who search for working dogs, as I know that not all people wich seek for working dogs are willing to kept a "useles" dog as pet forever when the training fails.

Czeska ? Yolka ????? Czeska was just once is dogshow Slovakia in puppy class, and maybe you could see her in Klubshow puppy class in Budapest (she win the class...), I don't remeber that you could see adult Czeska in any dogshow ......Yolka hehehe surely not.....she hasn't been any dogshow and I don't remember that you were in my kennel/dogschool or bonitacio where she was.....
What is the problem with Jetta? or Jesaya? I would like to remind you, we are talking about 6 mounth old dogs.......Zelma???she has bonitacio , several showresults , what is the problem with her? Zulu????? heheheh he is in UK, where you there?????
so, please don't tell me you have seen SEVERAL Crying Wolf dogs...when you could see not more than 2-3 , and don't write several ages when you are talking about puppy Czeska, puppy Jetta or Jesaja.
Ok, I also finish this nice conversation : )))) I hope you won't mind.

And yes, Sioban is happy and satisfied with Pollux , and totaly useless thing to talking about working ability and future exam of Pollux as he is 8 weeks old!!!
Come back a year later.


Edit

Zulu was sold almost addult, and sorry, it was not Yolka but Yasmine.
Oh, what a difficult question, whats the problem, better you ask whats the good characteristics. :lol:
What I most see in your breeding are atipical dogs, with atipical chest and weak ligaments, also some cow heel, now with J litter you get also low set ears as gift.
I dont know how you selected such characteristics on your dogs, but they are in the moment, weird.
I will die waiting the non existant working dogs list of Cry Wolf kennel.

Nebulosa, Lupis, Mikael and sorry if I forget someone who apparently like to complain on others dogs. It is very laughable to read this forum, in every topic there is some expert writing bad stuff about others, about somebody they probably not even know in person or maybe have not even met.
I have visited Edit, seen her beautiful dogs. I wonder, Isin't it all about jealousity ?
I would not critisise such a successful breeder that have dealed with this breed for many many years. I would rather ask her for advice.
And I would never critisise someones young dogs or puppies, why? They are not full grown and have lot of training in front of them until they are mature adult wolfdogs.
Look at your own dogs, are they perfect? Are you perfect owners.. none of us is perfect.

We all have different opinions, but why talk shit or try to hurt somebody on a forum? Children that do not know what is right or wrong to tell, they get excused, but adult people should be ashamed.

I think this discussion is way out of line.
Why not give each other advice and try to help each other and for all of us readers, keep this forum so we do not have to be ashamed of what you write here. We are hopefully all adults.

If you have something to discuss further with Edit, please take it in person with her, we do not want to read it here.

Let's be happy for Pollux that he was in good condition after long travel, and let's be happy for the new owners first wolfdog. I hope she will be pleased with him !
And in my opinion it is very much up to the owner, what it will become of the dog.

And keep in mind, that all people that get a wolfdog do not use them as "working dogs". I do not think that dogs have a bad life, or is bad quality of wolfdog, just because they do not become working dogs or owner is not interested in that. A dog want to be loved and needed, a true familymember. Correct me if I am wrong.


Best Regards,
Jenny Bäckman
Finland

http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/14/00/08/27/gonatt10.jpg

Jenny -

While I do agree with you some points, I do think that a well founded statement on the direction of a kennel is not "talking shit" all the time.

It has been pointed out that Crying Wolf dogs are not known to have titled much and Luna's Mom's friend has apparently expressed interest in a dog that is of breeding quality, good for conformation shows, and good for SchH sport.

I do not know how much we can depend on a puppy to fulfill these points out of a kennel not known for it. It is not dependant upon meeting the dogs or breeders.. which, may I add, the buyer herself did not meet the parents or dogs or breeder, either.

The puppy is out of a dam with a bonitation code that denotes shyness. In my opinion, and it does not have be one well versed in CSVs, perhaps that the breeder did not make a good recommendation of a puppy.

Perhaps the puppy WILL be a good fit. And, live up to all the expectations. But a breeder is supposed to provide the BEST possible fit. If Edit's kennel breeds for show dogs (no criticism from me for that), maybe she had better to recommend a working kennel for a person interested in work in order to better guarantee the person will get what they want. A kennel with a proven record of having dogs with qualities that fulfill the requirements of the buyer.

What good breeder wants to take a gamble with a puppy, that it will not live up to reasonable expectations?