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Dwarfism by Wolfdogs
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Believe me I know the genetics and problematic VERY well as we are with Mijke collecting the data for the database and comparing the results with the lines. And I do not mean only the official results but also information about dwarfs (which were not checked) and possible dwarfs... Believe me I have much more information about this matter than you... And I can still reapeat: what you say is just another gossip (typical for you). Quote:
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To say gossip and make questions is typicl for you, this is your life to sit and to write and playing on expert for everything. Maybe you want be a boss of " bonsai club for CSW " ... but remember " Bonsai Club is my patent! :0)) You made questions about Veron´s ED for example. So his owner made ED result now 1 month ago, for YOU! His ED is 0/0 MVDr. Vomáčka ČR.. Sarka send it to you many times and asked why is impossible to give this result to database. Why Veron´s ED isn ´t still in database? I am sure, when he is 3/3 his result will be there after 1 minit! I am not waiting nothing good from you, you are only fanatic polish girl what care about " your interests, " only. No want to give correct info. Mabye it is a carrier in Jolly´s line - A litter or ?? I saw two polish dwarf and I know combination came from... You, too, surly, but better is giving to head to sand. I could be happy, only when any carrier will be in this line! And I will be happy honestly, not like you about Veron ´s 0/0! And how many your dog´s have HD result´s from Sterc or from CZ??? Prepare bus and come with your dogs, you are welcome or stop stupid speculations!! Monika |
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Margo, why are you harrassing "z Peronówki" kennel and haven't seen to Admin adding HD/ED results of Lorelei, her brother Labal Lestat and a few "K" z Peronowki dogs? :evil_2 They had been checked last year, the results were sent immediately to WD and since they were HD A - according to some people should have been in the database after 1 minute!:lol::lol::lol: Naturally, I don't care if the results are in the database or not but I just wanted to make a point ;) |
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People like you and Mr. Berge are the reason why responsible breeders hesitate to speak openly about any health problem they get to know about. I doubt this is in the interest of the breed. I know Margo since many years, I am very sure if there is a problem she will do her best to eliminate it. Ina |
hello Monika, I am small French still beginner (only 7 years that I share my life with this fabulous race)…
I met you once, you judged one of my females (show and real bonitation....:rock_3 only female M3 ) , i was charmed of this meeting and i very appreciated spoken with you. I launched out in breeding amateur of this beautiful race last year, my pups my babies, I like them more than all, on the other hand a thing which I do not include/understand??? why and how dare to criticize a bitch born on your kennel (Jolly Z Molu Es), who more is one of your productions having made that your breeding is universally recognized????? an advertizing much better than that of will mutara???!!! no ????? :rock_3 I find, always my point of view of beginner that Margo did a super work with this female, would owe between being you to trust, not?? If you knew what this master key with a standard born on your premise and alive in France (Velasquez Z Molu Es), apparently many control on him, on the other hand it is with its second projection on females without radio, and seen the problems there is in its line, I let to you guess on whom will fall down the fault and which breeding will be blamed if there is health issue in its descent ............ for finish, please : and could you say some to us more on these famous problems in the line of Jolly, me (by my downward female of Jerry Lee) and much breeder works on this current of blood, it would be very interesting ......... :rock_3 just for information, my first pups are downward of Jolly, Jerry Lee and Merry Bell, no problem of nanism :rock_3 |
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Is easy to take blood and send this to Utrecht, nothing more. I criticize Jolly never, I like her, I selected her for Margo, she was best female from J litter....this is no criticism, sorry! Do you saw results of dwarf test and who is carrier, do you see Alistar´s pup " Hantu " on photos? Without test we can not be sure....only speculations... and this is no criticism, too. Margo can make spekulation, insult dogs and make " bad blood between breeders and owners " always, when she wants. She made spekulation about Veron ´s ED, so his owner made it officially for her! And now is problem to give his ED to database. I am always last, who get involved to some " stupid discuss " here. And I am sure, that " everywhere is something," as I wrote, alredy. CSWs are too close population. From wolfdog. org discussion get something, nobody. :? But I am not " Polish owner or breeder " and Margo not will manipulate or insult me or my dogs. Monika |
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http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11039 |
thanks for this reponse ,
ok about Jolly, you speak about Jolly's line... but please , can you speak about this ?? "and could you say some to us more on these famous problems in the line of Jolly, me (by my downward female of Jerry Lee) and much breeder works on this current of blood, it would be very interesting ......" (About Veron, it's not my problem, i don't like this variant ........ ) |
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The dwarfism isn ´t "any catastrof " and we can work with this problem simly. Take your dogs 4 ml EDTA blood and send to Utrecht University if you want be sure about carriers. Monika |
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In CZ we understand " nanismus " isn ´t same like " dwarf syndrom " ! I know about article and official activities here about dwarf problem from beginning. These activities not came from any Club. ...And all discussion about " some problems and dwarf, too " follow on from discussion and " doubts " here...nothing more. For Rona. I don ´t know her, but she will be big breeder and big expert for CSWs, surly. Dwarf is old problem, but now is more simly to do with this syndrom something. Who was and will be tested is very easy to find. Good night, Monika |
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1. You suggested that Jolly's decsendant(s?) (Alistair?) carry the faulty gene. 2. Than you blamed Margo for not having tested Jolly + offsprings 3. Jolly comes from your kennel The natural conclusion is that you have probably tested other 'z Molu Es' dogs (Jolly's sibilings and/or their offsprings?) and thus have relevant data that allow you to speak about this genetic fault in Jolly's line. :| Since I own Alistair's daughter it's obvious, that I'm intersted in your findings, isn't it? You claim you're a CSV expert and fair breeder as so why don't you answer my plain question? Only because you don't know me???:shock: |
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I am not stupid myself and I have my experiences with your gossip. So I will ask my question again: what litter, what parents? And a new one: If you knew about this problem so long before why didn´t you talk about it and took the risk to let it spread through the population? |
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Thank you in advance, Stefano |
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Ina |
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If you really speak about the photos of this dog, are you kidding????? Ina |
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She finds some facts (but she hides them in order to nobody else can check them as see her manipulation), as responsible for some problems she is directing some breeders she don't like. And the gossip goes to the publicity: "The expert Monika S. said that kennel XXX have genetis problems. Guru said so, and you must believe"... And her believers do so - do not think but simply spread the lies to other people... Every "news" which came from Monika and were posted here on forum works this way... Fist Ina you must know the old true - the ONLY good connections, the only good mating are made by her. If you do something against, if you do not follow her comands - you are her enemy... and your dogs are ugly and ill... :lol: |
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Ina, please again!! I don ´t speak about this dog : http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7920 I spoke about " Hantu " she is dead ! And I spoke about two dawrfs from article about dwarf syndrom. Who want to find info, find it, and not will be speculate here. Monika |
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And there are still 3 other questions for you to answer not to mention the ones asked in the month before. Ina |
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OK, now we can come back to our topic... I must mention, Monika, that it is visible that you do not have enough information about dwarfs in our population because believe me you will not start the topic to blame others as your female has in the pedigree at last two dogs which were for 100% "carriers" of the dwarf genes... ;)
Now for all readers: Monika (as always) writes some gossips but she is hiding the main information. Thanks to this she is manipulating the facts and thanks to it blaming people she don't like... So I will write more about this case but excuse me that I will hide the names of these dogs because both breeders of the parents and the "breeder" of mentioned puppies do not deserve to be attacked here. They were never hiding the facts, they helped us very much to collect the information about possible "carriers" - they are really honest people and perfect breeders so because of it I will not allow to sling mud on them here on forum by people like you, Monika... Quote:
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Dear Monika, you should know that nobody was hiding this information (it is official in Poland, the owners are active on the polish forum) and Mijke (the dwarf project leader) was informed about it exactly by me. This litter is just proof for the information we had before. Nobody was writing about it because nobody even though to use it as argument to fight or blame these breeders. As we are not writing about other dwarfs or blaming any breeders or owners. I think you TOTALLY missunderstood what is the main point for collecting the information about the "carriers". For us it is just information. For you it is great argument to fight with other breeders - now I really understand the arguments of Czech breeders which accused you for abusing the possition of breeding comittee member in Czech Republic to fight with competition and why they removed your from this function. But from the beginning - some facts for all readers: You will not find this litter in the database. It was a mistake litter - the man rescued a female which was related to his male. By mistake the male covered the female - there were two dwarf puppies born in this litter. The dogs do not have pedigrees because their parents do not have the breeding rights. Mistake which is now used by Monika and her polish friend for their personal wars... With the information we have at the moment it is easy to say why the dwarfs were born - in their pedigree we have one dog which is 100% "carrier", and strong inbreed on two other dogs where one is also "carrier" for 100% and the second is "carrier" almost for sure (but not 100% so far). 1 dog comes from Slovakia, 2 of them from Czech Republic (all of them with hundreds of offsprings in all european countries). I hope the case is clear for you now... Quote:
I know it is unimaginable for you that a breeder is not hiding information about his dogs. But I really do not need to hide anything - there is really nothing to be hidden... :D Back to the topic: do you remember your words which you told some years ago - that there is a 'rule' in Czech Republic that in every litter one or 2 puppies MUST die. Do you know how many of the were hidden dwarfs? How many dwarfs were born by you? Nobody knows it exactly because such information is hidden by you and breeders like you. Basing on the pedigree there were dwarfs (or will be in any kennel) because according the dogs which were for sure "carriers" I would say 80% of the dogs (maybe more we can count it later) can be carriers as the most popular stud dogs in Slovakia, Italy, France, Holland and Czech Republic were carriers... Now back to the Hantu case - I have really bad news for you. It is already known for longer time that Milo Ruskov dvor is "carrier" (and he is in the pedigree of all dogs which you are writing about). Yes, yes - exactly the grandfather of your female - Upstream. I didn't have any dwarfs in Milo's litter - all puppies were normal. But there are two other breeders which had them for sure. One died at the age of 6 weeks after birth - was not registered. Second lived about 2 months - stayed by the breeder till end of his life. I do not have information how many similar puppies were born in Slovakia but for sure there are more such cases. (of course it is nothing against Milo - if I would have the chance to decide if I would use him again I would do this again - he was famous and popular stud dog because he gave good quality puppies with great character and perfect hips (with much more HD-A results than the average statistics). In the pedigree of your female there is another "carrier" dog comming from the same kennel as the dog "responsible" for dwarfs in France and Holland. By his offprings we have also dwarfs born (the polish litter is one of them - there is even inbreed on this dog). As you can see nobody is "free" of this problem - even you as there are (at last) two dogs carring the dwarf gene in the pedigree of your female. And for sure more by her puppies as there are known casses of dwarf dogs by Passo del Lupo. As you can see the difference between us is: I'm not hinding the information. And you - you are blaming other breeders but you did not even allow for a possibility that you dogs, dogs from your kennel have huge "chance" to be carriers... And there is no info about dwarfs puppies born in your kennel only because you do not allow such information to be published (as you do also with the most health problems)... I will not use the "carrier" story to blame your dogs. I do not want to blame Passo del Lupo, z Kladenske zare or Ruskov dvor. Or any other kennel. But after collecting the information it just came out that any dog can carry "dwarf" gene. What I really do not like is that you are ruining the whole "dwarf project" as it base ONLY on the voluntary work of breeders and owners. The data was collected only for futer information. Nobody was blamed for having carrier. No line was selected as "ill" or "dwarf line" and no breeder was blamed. Thanks to the information we are getting from breeders who sent us data about born dwarf puppies we were able to identify much more carriers and possible carriers than thanks to the gene tests (which are too expensive for many breeders). I'm not sure if they will be so willing to help Mijke now when they can see that for people of your kind it can be only good reason to attack them because of personal reasons... I'm sorry but it seems you have NO IDEA how a good breeding "adviser" should behave. And instead of really carring to eliminate health problems you are just looking for reasons to attack more and more breeders with invented "genetic problems".... |
Monika,
I don't know you, I have nothing against you, on the contrary, I always repeat that my girl owes her famous "Jolly's smile" your breediing efforts.:) I know you and Margo have problems between you, but I'm a grandma and have my own judgements.;) I assume you are a CSV breeding expert and there's no irony in this statement. Somebody, who has had so many litters must know a lot about the breed. I find some of your views, eg. on HD or adding data to the WD database a bit shocking, but still - you're the CSV expert, not me.:| I also think nobody should be blamed for breeding dogs with this faulty gene - how could breeders have known about this fault before Mijke made the tests available! But since it was you who brought this topic to light, would you be so kind and answer my question, even though I'm not a breeder and you don't know me? I'm very politely addressing you as an expert, who has good intentions and cares for the breed: Have you tested any of your dogs towards dwarf genes? What were the results? |
So easy to point a finger to each other :? :roll:, but the only thing that really is important is this :rock_3.
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:gent both, for saying this on "a public forum" :Rose. I sooooooo hope this helps people cross the line to test there dogs :cool:. Because it is "our breed the CSW" :(, and not a specific breeder or a specific dog :evil: :roll:. Groette Martine. |
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Sorry Loco, your " report " was best the end of this topic, but I will write sortly. I'm not grafoman and exbicionista. I am not a sociopath, therefore is easy for me to differentiate what is good and what is bad or dangerous! What are you doing Margo, this is called "brainwashing." All necessary and required about dwarfismu were told yesterday, and this issue is clear! I have private doubts whether was Milo tested .... but it's my thing. Dwarf puppy I saw after Ali, too: 0 ( Needless to do drama more. .... But if I am writing something, it's like the injects into the hornets' nest and it is very funny: 0) Thanks God that was the breed recognized by FCI before the era of "Wolfdog.org and Margo's brainwashing!" I worked actively for our Club 10 years, maybe more?? It is sufficiently long time and this time for the our breed was more important, we was owners no recognized dogs. Fanatism and inability to recognize a different view, another way is the path to hell. And finally, I am currently the owner of 2 females CSWs, only and I promise that they will be testing this year. And I hope, that more owners let tested dogs from my kennel, than Rolf. And I blame Polish breeder never!! Why?? It is only your manipulation and stop these speculation. I don ´t need to play on freinds or expropriate e - box! Only real test is done clear, we not need to wash the brain and no one discussed above. Monika |
Why you write it?
Dwarf puppy I saw after Ali, too: 0 ( I wait answer!! |
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Thanks :lol:
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And why you write it Hana? My formulation no was correct, sorry. The pup not was tested, and he is dead, too. Hana you have the picture of this pup, I lost it :0(.. but I will try to find it again....... Best way will be the test your dogs, like me..this can stop all spekulation! ...and Micheal???? I am waiting on your answer too :0) Monika |
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Ina |
Monika, be sure, breedcomission collect all info about dwarfism in Czech Republic, we "work" with it and me personally try arrange for all czech people one laboratory, where they can do tests for all our (czech) dogs. I hope it will be in not long time.
The testing in other countries is for czech people expensive. Dwarfism is in all population of wolfdogs, almost in every line and family. Czech, slovak lines,....unfortunatelly. We can watch it and we can make "good parents pairs". Breed comission has much info about pups here and in the World, but we NEVER write THIS or THIS is carrier, danger dog for breeding, etc. It is not fair for owners. I try to do something for czech owners, breeders. And you? I don´t understand you. Are you jealous? Or what? |
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It seems breeding is becomig a really costly entreprise :) HD, ED, PRA, Dwarf, heart.... not to mention that it's also very risky for the breeder's mental health :lol: (Mikael, I agree with your diagnosis;-)) |
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If Milo did a dwarf pup, he and the female mother of this dwarf pup ARE carriers or the pup would not have problem. To remind you, will only born dwarf dogs if both parents are carriers. And its the principal mean of the DNA test, don't mate carrier X carrier anymore for dont born dwrf pups anymore, even if commonly that the dwaf pups die, if they live is a suffer for them and for the owners. So, automaticaly, if Milo, Ali o wheatever dog did a dwarf pup, he AND the mother of these pups MUST be carrier, you don't need the genetic test to prove in this case, only a honest breeder which don't hide this information. |
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I know it....but I saw dwarf pup from Milo never. An this is a reason of my doubt...not more. If somebody saw it and is it sure, no spekulation, OK. Your explantion is good and usefull :0) Monika |
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