I didn't say an active pet home was a lesser placement. I just said I am more than happy with Pollux going to this placement.
Again, his owner is the one whose business it is to neuter him or not. Personally I prefer intact animals, too, as I like to show. Doesn't mean I breed willy-nilly, or intend to. Never even had an "oops" breeding.
I think the man is responsible enough to be able to handle managing an intact adult.
While Pollux is gorgeous, I do not know how much of his behavior is genetic, so I would not want to breed to him necessarily or take a pup. I am more than happy with ONE vlcak, thank you very much!
Again, we are placing Pollux to please him, not you.
You all are being absolutely ridiculous, getting all up in arms and judgmental over something that has absolutely nothing to do with you, nor have you sacrificed your time and effort to raising this dog. We have. It's our call. If you don't like it, too bad. There are more important things in life for me to dedicate my time to. Obviously explaining our reasoning is useless since you have made up your mind that we are horrible for making the decision and I am no longer going to waste my time on this topic.
Enjoy your glass houses.

WTF???

Not that I know of but we would not be interested in a puppy. The Luna / Pollux litter was a thought but we are no longer even considering that.

Nope, if it looks like a wolf then it's a wolf in the eyes of Florida law. All the husky owners should be careful now.

http://myfwc.com/license/wildlife/captive-wildlife/

Bottom of section D:

yes yes - this all who you planed make we can call this same WTF they DOING :lol::lol::lol:

Hmm....methinks from what little you have said, you are placing Pollux to please you - not him.

Take the Michael Vick attitude elsewhere. It's nice to see the forum's management is willing to make such a suggestion. It is clear where the forum's management stands on things like that.

What do u think u deserve a pat on the back for? :?

people want open your eyes.. but per 6 themas sites we see- this not help.

Earlier it was stated that it was Pollux's true owners decision where he was rehomed to, not yours...now you're stating its your choice and its tough if people don't like it.

What is the truth here?

Also, you're not the only people on the Earth to have taken on a dog, someone else didn't want and then had to put time and effort into said dog.

It doesn't make you a Saint, you are not above the rest of us and you can sure as hell still do wrong.

Taz

No, I don't doubt my friend's ability to raise a good working dog - she does so regularly. The problem was that Pollux has some serious shyness issues, and that was a major factor in her decision to look for another home. A shy dog is not necessarily a good working prospect to do what she wanted to do with him.
Pollux lives with us, and we have been charged with finding and screening good homes for him - we have been involved in rescue of various breeds for the last 10+ years, so it is not difficult to screen for a good home.
Our initial hope was to place him in a performance/show home which would require he be kept intact. So far, the "Saarloos mix" accusations have not been confirmed, and I would still place him on a co-own contract, intact. Just because a dog is in a home intact does not mean he will be bred. I have had multiple dogs of my own - all intact - and very few have ever been bred, and I never have had an "oops" breeding in 21 years of dogs.
The other option is an active companion home - where he would be placed neutered. In both cases, the financial terms will be between the adoptor and the owner - I step out of it, even though he has been our financial burden for quite a while. I do not expect reimbursement.
And in both cases, keeping him local will also allow us to inspect the home and make sure that he settles in well and I can help them with socializing him.
I am done with being demonized for trying to do the right thing. It seems that he will not be going out to CA to the wrangler which is too bad, but I am sure we will find him an appropriate home. Thanks for all your help, support and understanding.

If you were willing to send him out of state for the wrangler - why not for a different home? Why limit your options that way.

I have to say I am pleased he is not going to the wrangler from what you have said about his temperament and the intended use of him there.

Never said I was a saint nor better than anyone, though it seems a few of YOU seem to have that same attitude. Demonizing me for whatever you think I am doing wrong. Your judgmental behavior will some back to you at some point - Karma is a bitch. It seems you all are interested in being part of the problem and throwing blame rather than being part of the solution.
Getting angry at me for taking the dog in and trying to find him a better home is really stupid. As if I am to blame or had some way to prevent or control it.
You may not agree with my placement decisions - it is not your call. I am sure my husband reached out to all of you seeking help, NOT narrow-minded judgment and abuse from those who seem to be so perfect they can throw stones at those of us trying to do the right thing.
He will be placed locally so that I can personally do the home check, help him settle in and help his new family adjust as well.
Also, as I have a lot of friends throughout the community here, if the family decides to "dump" him without telling me, I will be notified immediately and can get him. I don't have the ability to do that if he is far away.
As I originally understood it, this forum was started with the intent to bring vlcak owners throughout the world together to share their love, knowledge, experience, etc., with the breed and to promote the breed responsibly. I didn't realize it was a forum for people to unfairly judge and criticize others to make themselves look/feel better. How is the aggressive behavior helpful at all? Makes you feel good? Such behavior is called "bullying" here and is indicative of mental illness issues. Perhaps take a long, good look in the mirror and try to figure out where the aggression is coming from, and what is the purpose of such behavior. You think it helps me? Or Pollux? Are you so "clean" in your life that you have the right to judge others?
I am really not interested in your answers - I think you need to look deep inside yourself and figure those out on your own. As it is, I am comfortable with finding Pollux a great home and I am over the judgemental crap. Not helpful and not healthy.

I was just curious as to why you were so happy for him to go out of state for the wrangler, but not now.

Merely asking a question - but your reply above says a lot more about your choices than maybe you realise.

Whatever - I hope Pollux finds a home that deserves him.

Wtf!!! Yeah we all have mental health problems lol!!!!!!

If he turns out not to be a mix he shouldn't be bred from anyway! You have said time and time again he is like a saarloos in temp!

How would you stop an 'oops' mating anyway if he's not living with you? :?

Why u so up in arms? Oh yeah,everyone was suposed to agree with you and tell you how wonderfull you are! :roll:

Inflated ego... Wish you hadn't chose the breed csv to help boost it

Have you ever thought that you're being unfair with this forum?
People tried to help you with open heart several times, you simply havent listened.
patience is something limited even to wolfdog owners and time is quite precious to waste, when people have the feeling that they lost time trying to help you, their patience will gone.

There are some topics talking about problems related to Crying Wolf kennel, Lupis ( our loved fake, as , even if massively criticized, sometimes he talks the truth) even warned you about what you were doing.
Seems like you havent warned your friend about it, or to search more about what dog she was importing, she simply played as expert and brought a problematic dog to your land, after see it was a problem she simply throwed him away like a toy in your hands, and it was your problem.

Some people here knows you tried to sell Pollux because they found your advertisement at internet, including me, at the same time you opened new topics here to show how Pollux was improving and how good dog he is/will be, which also gave the impression that these topics were done with the intention of show to people how wrong they were about Pollux due he being a Crying wolf and how your friend and you were right. (i'm not telling it was the intention, but it was interpreted in this way for some people, believe me)

After you write how experienced you are, how prepared you are, how good trainer you are, how prepared and experts people you know, you came with this topic saying that you want to find a new home for Pollux, and ended it telling you will give him to a "wangler"... and you keep telling that it would be a fine choice because you're the best and that's it, even when people is worried not only with the future of Pollux but also with the reflects of a possible exposure of the breed... how do you think people will react? Kiss you and thank you for all the wasted time for nothing, or for the possible problem you can add the breed?

Taking in the whole thread, I don't think the criticism is so much for placing him intact as it was placing him with THAT particular home, intact. He obviously wasn't meant to be shown if he went with the man in CA, and I have to also disagree with the idea that it would be fine to breed Pollux as part of a working film dog line. The whole point of organizations breeding their own lines of dogs for work (at least, in my opinion) is to get the best quality possible, by having complete control of breeding. If this is the case, and you're breeding dogs for film, why would you sabotage yourself by starting out with stock that is known to be shy? Regardless of whether the shyness was caused by breeding or by Pollux's early start in life, I personally wouldn't want to take that chance if temperament was going to be such a crucial factor in the dogs I hoped to produce. Honestly, if the man backed out of taking Pollux, I wouldn't be surprised if the shyness issues were part of the reason. Like I said, you'd want to give yourself the best start possible, just like starting any breeding program.

I know I already said it, but I really, really wish we were in a position to help you out with Pollux! For our next dog, I really wanted one I could get more involved with in regards to training goals, and working with him would be exactly the sort of thing I'd be looking for. I swear, if I weren't about to drop a baby in the next few weeks, you might have to deal with me bugging you about him more! ;)

Regardless of what happens, good luck finding him a good home. There's a reason the wrangler didn't work out, there's obviously a better home for Pollux out there somewhere. :)

I never said you said you are a Saint...just your posts in reference to taking Pollux on, read like you expect us to view you as such.

Also, I wasn't angry, more like incredulous.

Now, I just really can't be bothered to continue to waste my time.

Hopefully Pollux will get a home with understanding owners, who are able to love him for the dog he is, not the dog they want him to be, or for the money he could provide.

Taz

You can view me however you like - we took Pollux on to foster and place as we feel a commitment to the breed as well as really liking the dog himself. Despite skittishness, he really has a very unique, funny and sweet personality. As I mentioned before, we have been involved in fostering and placing rescue dogs of other breeds and have homed upwards of 16 dogs. I personally have always felt not only as a breeder, but as a steward of a breed, you owe it to asist in rescue efforts. For those who are so critical - do you rescue or just criticize those who do?
I am happy to report that Pollux has found his forever home, and that he (and we) met some interesting people who also generously gave of themselves for his sake.
A firefighter was the first to want to adopt him - a local home and a perfect owner for Pollux... however, the firefighter's girlfriend was not such a fan, so Pollux was returned. The firefighter was so committed to Pollux, however, that until Pollux was adopted, the firefighter would come over on his days off and take Pollux out - to Starbuck's, to run around at the park, to visit people - great for Pollux to get out and socialize.
His forever home found him just recently - a police officer and his wife - both of whom were totally committed to Pollux. The police officer grew up with a 3/4 Timber Wolf/GSD mix so Pollux's wolfy shyness didn't bother him at all. The wife was also not at all worried about any of the skittishness - and I made sure they both knew all of Pollux's "strange" habits/behaviors before they took him home for a "trial period"... The home is local - which is great as I was not only able to personally verify the home, but also return to give lessons to help him settle in.
I am happy to say that Pollux fell in love with his new people and is VERY happy being an "only dog." He bonded with them very quickly - and they love him completely - quirky behaviors and all. He will be neutered and is a very-much-loved pet - climbing into their laps and kissing and just so happy to be somewhere where he is not expected to be anything other than the goofy sweet puppy he really is.

Well, we all can just keep our fingers crossed and hope that Pollux will not need to change his home again.

Maybe his new owner would like to join the forum? ;-) Guess we all became a little attached to Pollux through all his "adventures", starting with his flight from Europe...

For the record....Yes - I rescue (two of my current dogs are) and I do a lot of home checking, I deal with behaviour calls for a local rescue centre and Will do private rehomes as we are seen as the local 'dog' people!
I am sure many others on here do similar if not more, possibly it might be worth checking before suggesting that people are just in it to 'criticise'.

I am very glad Pollux has found his forever home and wish him all the luck with it.

It would be nice for the owners to join and share how they are doing with him. It would be lovely to see him in his forever home with people who want him for him :)

its great that it sounds like Pollux has found his forever home, where he's wanted for who he is. Would be nice if the new owners would join and post updates on his progress.

Taz

Hi Sara,
I'm really glad for Pollux that he finally find HIS home :D I wish him and his new familly all the best :D
Best regards,

Already mentioned the forum to them - hoping they will join. There are too few resources for vlcak folks here in the U.S.
They are hoping he will continue to make progress toward eliminating the shy/skittish behavior as he is socialized and they would like very much to do Therapy work with him, if he is comfortable with that.
He is still quite young, so we'll see how it goes.
We miss him and his quirky personality, too... his smile and his crazy burrow-under-the-covers thing...

Oooooo... Congratulations to you, Ed and especially Pollux :cake

So happy to hear this :)

Further Adventures of Pollux...
 

So, unfortunately, home number 2 didn't work out. The wife was concerned about her ability to control him (he is a BIG boy and she is petite) - they were heartbroken, but I can understand. Pollux is sweet and well-behaved, but when he does the darty, wolf-like running away, it can be tough to deal with that all the time.
So he is back being fostered part-time between us and the firefighter who wanted him.
I have a couple interested in him, so maybe the third times a charm? In the meantime, he is either here being spoiled or at the firefighter's house being REALLY spoiled. :)

Ok, so you give him for people to TRY??? :shock: A dog keeps changing homes and people, rules and surroundings, having no real "pack leader". At the young age he is know - do you really think it is not making him any more harm?

And she/they didn't think about this before they took him on. *Sighs*

Bloody hell, some people give up far to easy. Perhaps walking him using a head collar would have made it easier/possible for her to handle him, when he has one of those moments.

Sorry to here it didn't work out...again. Poor Pollux all this going back and forth between people can't be helping him settle down.

Taz

Did they think he was going to shrink and age ten years?? Poor boy :(

I so wish we had a place with room, he would get along well with our pair I'm sure.

We are still looking for a house in Louisiana or Mississippi.

I do not put him in a home thinking it is just temporary, but I DO require that if there is a problem that they don't think they can work out, I want him back. So, in these instances, there was a "trial period" unfortunately. Honestly, though, I would MUCH rather insist that the adoptors return him to me if there is a problem rather than dump him in a shelter because they are too embarassed to let me know it didn't work out.
Having done rescue with other dogs, I have seen that happen before - the family takes the dog, a month later they realize their Malinois puppy is just "too much" for them and rather than contacting Rescue, they just dump the puppy off at Animal Control.
That is the major reason I prefer to adopt him locally - I can take him back or pull him from a shelter if he ends up there.
I know there are special needs that vlcaks have, so I know he is not the easiest dog to re-home. I am very frustrated, but how can I blame people for not being able to deal with him? It isn't their fault - they tried, I think. They certainly did not go into the relationship thinking it would be temporary, either. His recent home was over two weeks, and when I see them crying as they hand me the dog... and see how much Pollux loved them, too...
I am not a fan of his bouncing around homes, either, although I WILL say the extra socialization and exposure to different situations IS healthy for Pollux. The adoptors were not particularly strict with their rules and Pollux does not seem any different or damaged in any way from his experiences. I could see that he had bonded with his recent adoptors and clearly loved them. He was just as happy to see Ed and I, too, but clearly enjoyed his "trial periods"... in fact, I have seen that he seems to adapt very quickly and easily to the people he is with. That is a GOOD thing in my book - healthy to see him be confident and open with them.
So there are broken hearts all around. Even this evening when the foster firefighter dropped Pollux off to us, he was seriously bummed. He was hoping, during his fostering, that his girlfriend would accept Pollux... it seemed to be working, except that it sort of worked too well - Pollux got all happy and excited when she came home and he jumped on her accidentally scratching her face with a claw... It threw her back into her fear of him. <sigh> And with that instinctive distrust, it doesn't matter what I say - she just doesn't want him in her house.
So we are back to square one. I am upset and frustrated and worried that we will never find the right person/people for him... of course he will stay here until we do, but I feel badly that I can't give him more than I do. He is an amazing boy - he so deserves to be someone's only boy (or maybe one of two dogs) someone who won't mind his wolfy quirks and not be afraid of his more obnoxious behaviors (like his play nipping and boxing). For crying out loud, he is even good with cats! What a special boy!
So here's hoping we can find him a good placement... this is, by far, the toughest dog I've ever had to place...

How sad. I've always thought of getting a pet - through a breeder, a shelter, a rescue, doesn't matter - as a life long commitment. Poor Pollux.

It is so very sad.

I feel sorry for the fireman, he clearly loves Pollux and is prepared to take him qwerks and all. What a fool the girlfriend sounds, giving up on what seems to be a wonderful dog, simply because he got a bit over enthusiastic with his greeting. *Shakes head* some people.

I really do wish I lived closer, he'd fit in well here.

Hope some day soon he will find someone who is willing and able to give him the home he deserves.

Taz

I am surprised she was happy to have him there in the first place from what has been said.

I guess its 4th (or 5th?) time lucky for Pollux :(

Methinks he was booting the wrong one out ;)

Lol, indeed.

Taz

Totally :rock_3
Strange thing people do not really think before they take a dog to their home...:roll:

I agree, Taz - the firefighter is DEFINITELY booting the wrong one out! That opinion is unanimous - of course most of my friends are animal lovers, but the bottom line is, the loyalty of another human is questionable whereas the loyalty of a dog? ALWAYS.
Took him to meet the couple who will be fostering him when I go out of town to officiate my baby sister's wedding. He is such an amazing boy - just fit right in like he was meant to be there.
I also got a report from the firefighter - apparently the last time he was fostered there they let him sleep in their bedroom out of the crate and also left him loose in their home when they went out to dinner. Since I have not allowed him to be loose with no supervision I wanted to know how he did. Anything destroyed? Nope. Although he DID learn how to open the door from their house to the garage and left a whole loft of incriminating nose prints on the jeep parked there! :)
He also was more than happy to snooze the day away with the firefighter and befriended all the dogs in the neighborhood.
So we have some people interested in him who I am planning to interview and make SURE they know, up front, the good, the bad and the ugly so that they will know exactly what they are getting into. Because I see his quirky behaviors as easy to modify I don't necessarily think of them as something that would inspire someone to give him back. Yes, he is big. Yes, he will jump on people he loves in greeting. Yes, he will nip in play. All those things can be fixed, though. I wonder why the previous homes thought it was something to get rid of him over?

Finally adopted!
 

So, as I had hoped, the foster home - firefighter and girlfriend - did end up officially adopting Pollux. To our surprise and joy (and relief) the girlfriend really stepped up to the plate and made huge steps toward caring for Pollux - walking him herself, feeding him, working with him, etc. That was really what was holding the firefighter back - he didn't want to put the burden of the dog on her. He even bought a kennel for his fenced yard so that Pollux could stay out there and she wouldn't have to care for him when the firefighter was on shift.
Pollux himself fell in love with the girlfriend - he is MUCH more responsive to her than he is to the firefighter - he adores her. So, push came to shove when I was away and the firefighter had to pull a shift without Pollux coming here - so the girlfriend had no choice but to put her money where her mouth is... and she did great. Pollux actually slept on the bed with her and for the first time, she felt "safe" at home without the firefighter there. Yes, Pollux is a scaredy-cat but no would argue with a growling or barking wolf!
So after that, the firefighter decided to officially adopt Pollux. Since then (early October), he reports that they returned the kennel, as Pollux is always loose in the house while they are away! I would NEVER have even suggested an intact adolescent male vlcak be allowed to be loose and unsupervised in a house, but Pollux does not do anything naughty! Apparently one day the girlfriend could not lure him or push him into his crate, so she just left him loose... and he was perfectly behaved, so he has earned the privelege of not having to be crated - unless HE wants to - every once in a while he will go into his crate for a nap. Usually, though, he is with his people - even when he has room to run... the firefighter has a few acres available to him for private hikes, campfire gatherings, etc... he brings Pollux, and because Pollux is SO bonded with his people, he doesn't use a leash. Pollux is glued to their side. Again, I would NEVER advocate that, but I am glad that he has settled in to such a nice life with his adopted family. They understand him (probably better than I do, in some ways, as they are able to enjoy behavior that I would not have trusted him to do), love him and have really made changes to accomodate his needs. Who could ask for better? He is a pampered, much-loved pet who has run of the house, his own private nature refuge to hike on, his people take him out to eat at several outdoor restaurants - they solely eat there to be able to take him with them- he gets to snuggle and sleep on the bed, ride in the jeep, go to fun dog parks to socialize (one of his favorite things in life)... I will see them this weekend - a month follow-up to make sure he is as happy as reported - and I am thrilled that, despite all the difficulties in adopting him out, it worked out well in the end...

Happy news for you and your friend Siobhan, and congratulations to Pollux! May he have many years of happiness. :beerchug2

Great news! Kudos to the brave girlfriend :)

Brilliant news :) So happy for Pollux, the Firefighter and his - wonderful - girlfriend.

Seconded :)